Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem

Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> Wed, 30 October 2013 08:22 UTC

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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 01:22:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
To: Andrew Yourtchenko <ayourtch@cisco.com>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, "Ole Troan \(otroan\)" <otroan@cisco.com>, "draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org" <draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
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----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Yourtchenko <ayourtch@cisco.com>
> To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
> Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>au>; "draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org" <draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org>rg>; "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>rg>; Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>om>; Ole Troan (otroan) <otroan@cisco.com>om>; Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2013 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2013, Lorenzo Colitti wrote:
> 
>>  On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Andrew Yourtchenko 
> <ayourtch@cisco.com> wrote:
>>        Essence of that section: RA deals with routing [not always very 
> efficently]. DHCPv6 does not do it at all.
>> 
>> 
>>  I think the words you want are that RA "shares fate" with 
> routing, right?
> 
> I don't think "shares fate" is the correct wording for it - but 
> maybe I 
> misunderstand what you meant. Please expand.
> 
> Meantime I tried to reword that section: 
> https://github.com/ayourtch/ra-dhcpv6/blob/0bfbfd0f3c69de9b0c208aa1b7933ab6cc71be30/draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt#L230
> 
> Take a look and see if this captures the things any better.
> 
> It's a very tricky section. There's an intertwine of "DHCPv6 was 
> not 
> allowed to do any routing" + the implicit "I got an RA therefore that 
> router exists" (though "I got a DHCP offer from that router therefore 
> that 
> router exists" is also can be argued for) + the "multiple sources of 
> truths"...  I feel it turns into a micro-version of the "RA vs. 
> DHCP" 
> debate - maybe worth just folding it back into a pure factual "It was 
> decided that RA does routing, DHCPv6 does not, by the way RA does a slow 
> redundancy, which people do not like, therefore they think DHCPv6 should 
> do routing".
> 

(Disclaimer: Haven't had a chance to read the text yet)

I would generalise the description of RAs. 

They're not "Router Advertisments", they're Advertisements (typically) from Routers, and they propagate per-subnet IPv6 parameters to hosts - per-link MTU, per-link ND timers, per-link address configuration method, per-link on-link prefix status, default router lifetime (if not announced as zero). The can be used to propagate per-client per-link IPv6 parameters if necessary using unicasts.


I think DHCPv6 is really solving the application layer configuration problem, which is independent of and not specific to the underlying links and network layer parameters. I think IPv6 per-link parameter setting and application layer parameter setting are conceptually quite different problems (I think the sets of layer parameters they provide values for is one of the give aways.)


Regards,
Mark.