From nobody Tue Jan 5 05:24:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135C13A0E9F; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 05:24:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v5lt7vzrECca; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 05:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 219223A0EA0; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 05:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id m12so72511578lfo.7; Tue, 05 Jan 2021 05:24:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1SQgl1XLTSw1VjLcpmH5efHx0gFWWCCKuW9qAlluYJE=; b=gSU72xZH7COxCmLrtlFKpYwc6nf2Hak0ks8yA6HFOSZoqkBzUvcVvr6WJFAkkNpC5w ku/Ps3NhOZOIU/DoSBuUQJE5VYFhw8GJoo/FEUCfu1+E1z9mhnuPIfMlAfqLGNMPZzuS rngLWIg7Lddqwj6rgaLsGAus0Ws+xOzljFZrJO42TluAW4zjFIs0oPzXhH/gVzKiErsD OfOQCPNgZFMN09ZqS14Dm6dq+TED7ZDYwKqa8LV1XI730wBNZrUNwykIWxCnSh4ZqY0W v9FvWRudpxWZEND8TMkl8ZUJpIAPJFUzywfZq6BDSF8Gz2aTv8XMnEwi1OOGyYNpSS2G +L+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1SQgl1XLTSw1VjLcpmH5efHx0gFWWCCKuW9qAlluYJE=; b=FnoAcgx0isLRAEknfs4qYOvnG77rACVKwXzL3uvg5FLyTJkAEerVxLZOh1YZy1mYXb 4anLY5uXBmQOX76Mhe9vGydeF7MYOPVnTQNzwr3NeXUgVnhOh1/bvBlaIbXa8JuNpJbx ajEpJUwETM2Ls5+jaheD7yleqjDZ6GB2frnrjLUj0/8JqRL5sRPcYAgplrd3JpVODJ4O bth9aMtnXKUs3hTatygJ3xdZl17ND+SnPgsAz+PBRZyR1LrikH/pZ9XkgBmb10hUecsZ j0sRkPUBDT2Gj0jPNq20BLWJaXjQFa8iWnRacCIFO+rjVwTY7sTI3al/7e5dljnQF9lR 8jJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530bwHpj417gqgcmbPJyHfAqJT/DMc5qu8b8Zs/WARlJyzp1TRP3 6EodDQySrLTsqPBn5Mbe/dFNPY26CEjp4dPmIEo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy7Qa4lLDorvXA0BQsAr4jZyAyFkCPyFAYFZnA8q/Gc/WEI3Wcw9LnhU3ZHyhOthuu7QCI+AiYdSELYa6FksdI= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c650:: with SMTP id w77mr32343768lff.107.1609853064998; Tue, 05 Jan 2021 05:24:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160770241261.18071.12524922630334294118@ietfa.amsl.com> <299f492f-4cb7-fa9d-967f-b2a5df49034e@si6networks.com> <759efdb1-a59c-788c-0c7a-5a8ca2ced904@gmail.com> <20201231103010.GL13005@Space.Net> <47fb8588-98ee-bf50-b377-921f75dc72e0@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <47fb8588-98ee-bf50-b377-921f75dc72e0@gmail.com> From: Eduard Metz Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2021 14:24:14 +0100 Message-ID: To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Gert Doering , Fernando Gont , IPv6 Operations , draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing-considerations@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001473eb05b82720f6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-addressing-considerations-00.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:24:29 -0000 --0000000000001473eb05b82720f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Maybe the last column should be "Applicable to Internet" (no / no / yes) or something along these lines. I assume the point here is to indicate that link-local and ULA cannot be used on the Internet. cheers, Eduard On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 8:48 PM Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > Gert, > > On 31-Dec-20 23:30, Gert Doering wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:00:33PM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >> 4. The following table attempts to show some of the distinctions > >> involved (simplified). View in a fixed-width font. You may not > >> agree with it... > >> > >> Unicast Prefix IID Routeable Announced > >> address assigned assigned > >> types by by > >> ----------------------------------------------------------- > >> Link-local fixed host no no > >> by RFC > >> > >> ULA user/RA host or yes IGP only > >> (random) DHCPv6 > >> > >> GUA IANA/RIR/ host or yes IGP, > >> ISP/user/RA DHCPv6 BGP4 by policy > > > > Indeed, I am not agreeing - as there is nothing that prevents ULAs from > > being transported by BGP. > > Indeed, nothing in the laws of physics, but it's default-forbidden by > an RFC ;-). Exactly how to express that in a short table is tricky. > > I think we all agree about this; what Fernando's draft shows is that it > is quite hard to describe, and the word "global" is confusing. > (Really for the same reason that URLs were renamed from "universal" > to "uniform" in 1994. But renaming "global" at this stage seems almost > impossible.) > > Brian > > > > > We use ULAs for "services that must never reachable from the Internet", > > and our routing being what it is, everything is transported by BGP - only > > loopbacks in OSPF. The difference is "do we announce it to other ASes?" > > > > So maybe this should be "generally expected to be visible by other > > networks on the Internet" (ULA: no, GUA: yes). > > > > But that's neither precise nor does "expected" mandate anything - I might > > want to announce our ULA prefix to our sister company, using eBGP, and > > I might decide to not announce our GUA IPv6 PI /48 that we use for our > > backbone infra "because people are not supposed to send packets there"... > > > > Gert Doering > > -- NetMaster > > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > --0000000000001473eb05b82720f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Maybe the last column should be "App= licable to Internet" (no / no / yes)=C2=A0 or something along these li= nes. I assume the point here is to indicate that link-local and ULA cannot = be used on the Internet.

cheers,
=
=C2=A0 Eduard

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 8:48 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com= > wrote:
Gert= ,

On 31-Dec-20 23:30, Gert Doering wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 02:00:33PM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> 4. The following table attempts to show some of the distinctions >> involved (simplified). View in a fixed-width font. You may not
>> agree with it...
>>
>> Unicast=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Prefix=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IID= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Routeable=C2=A0 =C2=A0Announced
>> address=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0assigned=C2=A0 =C2=A0 assigned >> types=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 by
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Link-local=C2=A0 =C2=A0 fixed=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0host=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0no=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 no
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by RFC
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0
>> ULA=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0user/RA=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0host or=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IGP only >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(random)=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 DHCPv6
>>
>> GUA=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IANA/RIR/=C2=A0 =C2=A0= host or=C2=A0 =C2=A0 yes=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IGP,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISP/user/RA = DHCPv6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP4 by= policy
>
> Indeed, I am not agreeing - as there is nothing that prevents ULAs fro= m
> being transported by BGP.

Indeed, nothing in the laws of physics, but it's default-forbidden by an RFC ;-). Exactly how to express that in a short table is tricky.

I think we all agree about this; what Fernando's draft shows is that it=
is quite hard to describe, and the word "global" is confusing. (Really for the same reason that URLs were renamed from "universal&quo= t;
to "uniform" in 1994. But renaming "global" at this sta= ge seems almost
impossible.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian

>
> We use ULAs for "services that must never reachable from the Inte= rnet",
> and our routing being what it is, everything is transported by BGP - o= nly
> loopbacks in OSPF.=C2=A0 The difference is "do we announce it to = other ASes?"
>
> So maybe this should be "generally expected to be visible by othe= r
> networks on the Internet" (ULA: no, GUA: yes).
>
> But that's neither precise nor does "expected" mandate a= nything - I might
> want to announce our ULA prefix to our sister company, using eBGP, and=
> I might decide to not announce our GUA IPv6 PI /48 that we use for our=
> backbone infra "because people are not supposed to send packets t= here"...
>
> Gert Doering
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-- NetMaster
>

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