Re: [VCARDDAV] KIND in draft 15

Tantek Çelik <tantek@cs.stanford.edu> Mon, 20 December 2010 18:58 UTC

Return-Path: <tantek@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: vcarddav@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: vcarddav@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F338A3A6A6B for <vcarddav@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:58:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.577
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DiLBlCDtNbsI for <vcarddav@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:58:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90783A6A4C for <vcarddav@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:58:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so1476524gxk.27 for <vcarddav@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:24 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=LF12/Dvlx4DZpEZIkGwjBpEUGvFngbhn6A6qHD68CaE=; b=Y0DDDhWOEwrEliGvlCHauyIv1RJNuCH2Hs+7VrnRMr1qTNCOIhPiceRWWt/v8hpHBM hWSDCgKFepTDotqpsckatkJX0QXJgy7H30i4bafeq1AFxKNfB3FVomiNl5n8jH6AdFSK DygYEecFsqv4W63COxJnQpcOqeQ1wXEBKc1O8=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; b=Z2iZhmEHKG//wRR0T23y0O/qHE4ArW7kA7OZ322SPOSrLP5Cvw1zofmoMytmY78Ce7 8ukbLHZnT8XOJ2WV43yxSGiLsHiQEDEIqP9nfEmMWKkDd/09+5rirWylzPEE++ZdcXlm j3IPN81ZIcZfPb7xgoGV9BDlQNqUD/LelB9D8=
Received: by 10.90.4.29 with SMTP id 29mr6149208agd.9.1292871624675; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:00:24 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: tantek@gmail.com
Received: by 10.90.220.16 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:59:44 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <4D0B83AE.4060601@stpeter.im>
References: <AANLkTikckYf5A0rUZ6k=JN2UZwp+__bBFHndxbfLcEHK@mail.gmail.com> <4D0B6AC9.1080607@viagenie.ca> <4D0B83AE.4060601@stpeter.im>
From: Tantek Çelik <tantek@cs.stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:59:44 -0800
X-Google-Sender-Auth: eVqq6tQP3cDclLCiOBGgj4Sw8uE
Message-ID: <AANLkTimA-AuKRoOm6ZRmqSTmOBzHkWCah52ezCJCmvVp@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: vcarddav@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [VCARDDAV] KIND in draft 15
X-BeenThere: vcarddav@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF vcarddav wg mailing list <vcarddav.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vcarddav>, <mailto:vcarddav-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/vcarddav>
List-Post: <mailto:vcarddav@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:vcarddav-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vcarddav>, <mailto:vcarddav-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:58:32 -0000

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 07:37, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote:
> <hat type='individual'/>
>
> On 12/17/10 6:51 AM, Simon Perreault wrote:
>> On 2010-12-16 17:09, Kevin Marks wrote:
>>> I'd suggest we add KIND's for these
>>>
>>> Add 'list' for mailing lists and similar addresses that need different
>>> treatment by user-agents (eg gmail's category error of insistently
>>> trying to invite mailing lists to gtalk).
>>>
>>> Add 'automated' for the kinds of auto responder email addresses that
>>> updates from social networks, banks and the like.
>>
>> I think this should go into an extension. I see no reason for putting
>> this in the base spec.
>
> Agreed.

I agree with putting Kevin's suggestions:

* LIST - for describing a vCard object that represents a mailing list
* ROBOT - for automated, auto responder/notification email addresses,
e.g. used for updates from social networks, banks and the like

into an extension.

However I *also* think that

* GROUP

should be dropped from 6.1.4 and also be put into such an extension.

In my opinion, "GROUP" is far more abstract (lacks documented real
world user interfaces / implementations - if not - please cite the
research documentation) than *either* LIST or ROBOT.

Whereas right now, in my Gmail contacts for example, I *do* have
*several* email addresses (and thus contacts) for LISTs and ROBOTs.  I
don't have any for GROUPs.

I realize this is only one anecdote, and I invite others to post their
own or provide documentation of better research/data.

Thanks,

Tantek

-- 
http://tantek.com/ - I made an HTML5 tutorial! http://tantek.com/html5