Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER

Kevin Marks <kevinmarks@gmail.com> Fri, 17 December 2010 03:17 UTC

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From: Kevin Marks <kevinmarks@gmail.com>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
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Subject: Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER
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I think this makes sense as a way to fit the two facets together
clearly, without either straightjacketing the other. If we take the
long list of user-enetered genders on metafilter, they map into this
pretty clearly:

http://stuff.metafilter.com/genders/genderfield.txt

+-- Uses: 109640; Tokens: 1 -----------------+

GENDER:U;
+-- Uses: 3589; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
male
GENDER:M;male
+-- Uses: 1237; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
female
GENDER:F;female
+-- Uses: 592; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
m
GENDER:M;m
+-- Uses: 218; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
f
GENDER:F;f
+-- Uses: 119; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
dude
GENDER:M;dude
+-- Uses: 89; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
lady
GENDER:F;lady
+-- Uses: 80; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
girl
GENDER:F;girl
+-- Uses: 76; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
yes
GENDER:U;yes
+-- Uses: 73; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
xy
GENDER:M;xy
+-- Uses: 53; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
boy
GENDER:M;boy
+-- Uses: 51; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
guy
GENDER:M;male
+-- Uses: 49; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
xx
GENDER:F;xx
+-- Uses: 48; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
man
GENDER:M;man
+-- Uses: 39; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
mail
GENDER:U;mail
+-- Uses: 26; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
femme
GENDER:F;femme
+-- Uses: 24; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
chick
GENDER:F;chick
+-- Uses: 22; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
bloke
GENDER:M;bloke
+-- Uses: 21; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
woman
GENDER:F;woman
+-- Uses: 18; Tokens: 2 -----------------+
girly girl
GENDER:F;girly girl
male.
GENDER:M;male.
+-- Uses: 14; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
outie
GENDER:M;outie
+-- Uses: 13; Tokens: 1 -----------------+
girly
GENDER:F;girly
+-- Uses: 12; Tokens: 3 -----------------+
male-ish
GENDER:M;male-ish
nuts
GENDER:U;nuts
robot
GENDER:N;robot
+-- Uses: 10; Tokens: 6 -----------------+
fella
GENDER:M;fella
fembot
GENDER:F;fembot
innie
GENDER:F;innie
manly
GENDER:M;manly
mostly male
GENDER:O;mostly male
♂
GENDER:U;♂



On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote:
> On 12/16/10 5:40 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 16:19, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote:
>>> On 12/16/10 4:58 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 15:40, Sarah Dopp <sarah@sarahdopp.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tantek, do you think there are cases where a form will ask users for both
>>>>> their sex AND their gender?
>>>>
>>>> Implicitly, yes, and there are already some (a few) sites that do this.
>>>>
>>>> That is, there are sites (e.g. Digg, and previously, Pownce) that
>>>> provide a long list of possible "Gender" values which are a
>>>> combination of various "male" labels, "female" labels, and other
>>>> labels.  By choosing one of these options, the user chooses a gender
>>>> identity label, and an implied sex in many of the cases as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Your system sounds like good data management: it
>>>>> will allow any system to have either pre-defined or free-form values without
>>>>> one data set muddling up the other.
>>>>
>>>> This is *precisely* correct, and in fact, the goal here is to allow
>>>> for backward compatibility with the (perhaps simplistic) data models
>>>> of some sites, while enabling such systems to evolve to allow more
>>>> options for the sex component and finer granularity of gender
>>>> identity.
>>>
>>> Hi Tantek and Sarah,
>>>
>>> Are you proposing that we have two fields, SEX and GENDER?
>>>
>>> The SEX field would have values of M,F,U,O, but could be left empty.
>>>
>>> The GENDER field would be free-form text.
>>>
>>> Am I hearing you correctly?
>>
>> Not two fields.
>>
>> One structured field "GENDER" with two components: "sex" and "gender
>> identity", as described here:
>>
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/VCard4-draft-13-review#GENDER
>>
>> These should not be disconnected into separate fields because they are
>> frequently tightly dependent.
>>
>> This essence of the proposal (one structured field with two
>> components) is unchanged since I wrote up my draft 13 review.
>
> OK, thanks for the clarification. That sounds like a reasonable approach
> to me (with my individual contributor hat on). I look forward to hearing
> from the document editors and other participants.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> https://stpeter.im/
>
>
>
>
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