Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER
Kevin Marks <kevinmarks@gmail.com> Fri, 17 December 2010 03:17 UTC
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 19:19:35 -0800
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From: Kevin Marks <kevinmarks@gmail.com>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
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Subject: Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER
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I think this makes sense as a way to fit the two facets together clearly, without either straightjacketing the other. If we take the long list of user-enetered genders on metafilter, they map into this pretty clearly: http://stuff.metafilter.com/genders/genderfield.txt +-- Uses: 109640; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ GENDER:U; +-- Uses: 3589; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ male GENDER:M;male +-- Uses: 1237; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ female GENDER:F;female +-- Uses: 592; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ m GENDER:M;m +-- Uses: 218; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ f GENDER:F;f +-- Uses: 119; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ dude GENDER:M;dude +-- Uses: 89; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ lady GENDER:F;lady +-- Uses: 80; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ girl GENDER:F;girl +-- Uses: 76; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ yes GENDER:U;yes +-- Uses: 73; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ xy GENDER:M;xy +-- Uses: 53; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ boy GENDER:M;boy +-- Uses: 51; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ guy GENDER:M;male +-- Uses: 49; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ xx GENDER:F;xx +-- Uses: 48; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ man GENDER:M;man +-- Uses: 39; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ mail GENDER:U;mail +-- Uses: 26; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ femme GENDER:F;femme +-- Uses: 24; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ chick GENDER:F;chick +-- Uses: 22; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ bloke GENDER:M;bloke +-- Uses: 21; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ woman GENDER:F;woman +-- Uses: 18; Tokens: 2 -----------------+ girly girl GENDER:F;girly girl male. GENDER:M;male. +-- Uses: 14; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ outie GENDER:M;outie +-- Uses: 13; Tokens: 1 -----------------+ girly GENDER:F;girly +-- Uses: 12; Tokens: 3 -----------------+ male-ish GENDER:M;male-ish nuts GENDER:U;nuts robot GENDER:N;robot +-- Uses: 10; Tokens: 6 -----------------+ fella GENDER:M;fella fembot GENDER:F;fembot innie GENDER:F;innie manly GENDER:M;manly mostly male GENDER:O;mostly male ♂ GENDER:U;♂ On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote: > On 12/16/10 5:40 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 16:19, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote: >>> On 12/16/10 4:58 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote: >>>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 15:40, Sarah Dopp <sarah@sarahdopp.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tantek, do you think there are cases where a form will ask users for both >>>>> their sex AND their gender? >>>> >>>> Implicitly, yes, and there are already some (a few) sites that do this. >>>> >>>> That is, there are sites (e.g. Digg, and previously, Pownce) that >>>> provide a long list of possible "Gender" values which are a >>>> combination of various "male" labels, "female" labels, and other >>>> labels. By choosing one of these options, the user chooses a gender >>>> identity label, and an implied sex in many of the cases as well. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Your system sounds like good data management: it >>>>> will allow any system to have either pre-defined or free-form values without >>>>> one data set muddling up the other. >>>> >>>> This is *precisely* correct, and in fact, the goal here is to allow >>>> for backward compatibility with the (perhaps simplistic) data models >>>> of some sites, while enabling such systems to evolve to allow more >>>> options for the sex component and finer granularity of gender >>>> identity. >>> >>> Hi Tantek and Sarah, >>> >>> Are you proposing that we have two fields, SEX and GENDER? >>> >>> The SEX field would have values of M,F,U,O, but could be left empty. >>> >>> The GENDER field would be free-form text. >>> >>> Am I hearing you correctly? >> >> Not two fields. >> >> One structured field "GENDER" with two components: "sex" and "gender >> identity", as described here: >> >> https://wiki.mozilla.org/VCard4-draft-13-review#GENDER >> >> These should not be disconnected into separate fields because they are >> frequently tightly dependent. >> >> This essence of the proposal (one structured field with two >> components) is unchanged since I wrote up my draft 13 review. > > OK, thanks for the clarification. That sounds like a reasonable approach > to me (with my individual contributor hat on). I look forward to hearing > from the document editors and other participants. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Saint-Andre > https://stpeter.im/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > VCARDDAV mailing list > VCARDDAV@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vcarddav > >
- [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER (was Re: I-D Acti… Tantek Çelik
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER (was Re: I-D … Simon Perreault
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Florian Zeitz
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Tantek Çelik
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Sarah Dopp
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Tantek Çelik
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Tantek Çelik
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Sarah Dopp
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [VCARDDAV] two component GENDER Kevin Marks