Re: [vmeet] Audio echo
Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> Fri, 24 April 2009 21:57 UTC
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From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
To: Brian Rosen <br@brianrosen.net>
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Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:58:03 -0400
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Cc: vMeet@ietf.org, 'Dave CROCKER' <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
Subject: Re: [vmeet] Audio echo
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[changing subject lines to reflect the topic] To amplify: Line echo and acoustic echo cancellation are very different problems; see http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/support/technical/products/voice/vortex_choose_acoustic_echo_canceller.pdf for a summary. (Short version: The so-called tail time is much longer for the acoustic echo canceller.) Digital hybrids, such as the JK Audio one, are not meant for such applications - they only cancel line echo, although the basic operational model is not bad - essentially, we are running a call-in show. ClearOne is a well-known company in that space; however, most of these boxes seem designed for professional installation in conference rooms, not just plopping them down on a table next to the screen in rooms holding hundreds of people. (All the microphones and speakers have to be wired through them to work.) They are also not exactly cheap. Thus, the audio installation for each IETF would have to be done by somebody trained on that equipment, not the usual hotel audio crew that sticks black tape over XLR cables. However, you only need these fancy boxes if you run full-duplex. If you mute the floor microphones when the remote caller speaks (and vice versa), i.e., in half-duplex mode, there can be no acoustic echo. This is, I think, what Doug is proposing. This is more human effort, but a whole lot simpler to install. Henning On Apr 24, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Brian Rosen wrote: > I believe your comment on the audio is incorrect. > > Let's say that no one has any echo cancel, and someone in the room > speaks. > As you point out, you don't hear echo in the room. The remote > participants > would get the direct audio a bit later, and what also happens is > that some > of the outgoing audio from the room bounces off the hybrid in older > phones > and is reflected back to the bridge. The bridge has echo > cancellation for > this and the echo won't come back to the room. > > When a remote participant speaks, the sound comes out the speakers, > gets > picked up by the microphone a bit later, and is sent back to the > participant, delayed. Most conference bridges can't actually deal > with > this: they aren't equipped to have local echo. In this regard, it's > not any > different from two conference phones in use with a phone connection > between > them. If you don't do anything locally, you WILL get echo. > > However, there are devices available that are designed to link the > room PA > to the phone line used for the audio connection, and they have the > same kind > of echo cancellation that conference phone does. So, I think it > will work > out okay, although we have to make sure we do that. > > For example: > http://www.jkaudio.com/broadcast-host_dtails.htm > http://www.biamp.com/nexia_tc.php > > Brian >
- [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex session Dave CROCKER
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… Doug Otis
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… Brian Rosen
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… Doug Otis
- Re: [vmeet] Audio echo Henning Schulzrinne
- [vmeet] Best Practices Fred Baker
- Re: [vmeet] Audio echo Douglas Otis
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… SM
- Re: [vmeet] Best Practices Doug Otis
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [vmeet] Comments on today's vMeet webex sessi… Eliot Lear
- [vmeet] Remote Visual Presentation for IETF Stock… Doug Otis