Re: draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-06.txt
Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com> Wed, 21 January 2004 06:04 UTC
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:54:50 -0800
From: Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
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To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
CC: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>, vpn-dir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-06.txt
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Thomas, et al- Rereading the e-mail from Ross, I think the main point is that the document should be brought before the WGs dealing with the related issues (Ross suggests L3VPN and IPSEC). I think this is a reasonable request--a 2-week Last Call with a careful explanation of the reasons should do it, I think. -- Alex http://www.psg.com/~zinin/ Tuesday, January 20, 2004, 4:35:31 PM, Thomas Narten wrote: > Hi Ross. > Digging through some old mail, I have this note. This document has > come up to the IESG again for approval as an informational document > and will be discussed Thursday. If there is a problem with publishing > this, we need to be specific about why not. > If this conflicts with existing WG work and it would be better to > delay publication until after some RFCs are published, that is a > possibility, but we will need to have cause > Can one of you review (or get someone to review) this to see if you > have any real issues? > Thomas > Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> writes: >> At 03:39 PM 9/19/2003 -0400, Thomas Narten wrote: >> >Ron, Russ and Rick: >> > >> >Has this document been discussed in the VPN WGs at all? Is there any >> >issue with publishing them as informational? (Joe has asked the RFC >> >editor to publish them as info documents). >> > >> >Thomas >> I have a problem with this being published as an RFC in any >> form, prior to proper working group review. We have in the past >> (in the IETF) had a number of cases of people publishing things >> as informational in order to get around the need for IETF review. >> While I understand why people want to avoid having their work >> reviewed, I don't think that this is something that we should >> encourage. In some cases in fact the document that was >> published as informational was fine. In some other cases the >> approach was fine, but the spec was incomplete. In a few >> cases the approach had flaws. >> Note that I don't actually know whether there is anything that >> should be changed in the document (in a very quick look this >> evening I didn't see any problems with the actual approach). >> However, I don't think that it is correct to let them subvert the >> process. There are numerous places in the ppvpn working group >> minutes where the document has been referred to, in one case >> as a reason to avoid progressing a different document. How can >> someone say "we have an alternate document, which we are >> not going to discuss, but this other document is the reason that >> the working group shouldn't progress your document"? This >> doesn't seem like a valid process to me. >> Thus I think that both the L3VPN working group and the IPSec >> working group should explicitly review the draft before it is >> published as an RFC in any form. >> While I am not aware of it being explicitly discussed, it has >> apparently come up by reference in a number of discussions, >> and appears to have been presented once during a different >> presentation in spite of not appearing on the agenda. >> This is what I was able to find looking through one minutes >> (I only looked back as far as IETF 49): >> From the minutes of IETF 56, during the discussion of >> draft-declercq-ppvpn-ce-based-sol-00. >> Joe Touch: We have running code that is similar to this draft, except >> it is push-based, and not pull-based. Also it has not been cited as >> reference. 90% is similar to this document, 10 % is different. We have >> running code. >> There was a brief reference in passing in IETF 55 during the >> discussion of IPsec protected Virtual Links for PPVPNs >> (Mark Duffy). (again this was along the line of "how can you >> progress a document as a working group document when it >> doesn't conform to this non-working-group document). >> From the minutes of IETF 53, March 2002: >> Joe Touch gave a background for dynamic routing for IPSec transport mode. >> Didn't go to standards track to avoid confusion to already existing RFC 2401 >> (and therefore informational). >> This seemed to have occurred during or just after a presentation of >> draft-knight-ppvpn-ipsec-dynroute-00.txt >> The alleged reason for not going standards track doesn't make sense >> to me. >> During the 51st IETF (London, August 2001), in the discussion >> of draft-declercq-ppvpn-ce-based-00.txt (renamed as >> draft-ietf-ppvpn-ce-based-00.txt) there was a mention: >> Can use IPSec in tunnel mode (ipsec does SA selection, encapsulation >> and authentication/encryption) or transport mode (draft-touch-ipsec-..). >> During the 50th IETF, during a discussion of "Use of IPSEC with PPVPN" (Bryan Gleeson, >> draft-gleeson-IPSec-ppVPN-00.txt): >> Comment - Joe Touch: This has been addressed in my draft. Read draft-touch-IPSec-VPN-01.txt >> (used IP-in-IP encapsulation within IPSec transport mode). >> Ross > _______________________________________________ > Vpn-dir mailing list > Vpn-dir@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vpn-dir _______________________________________________ Vpn-dir mailing list Vpn-dir@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vpn-dir
- Re: draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-05.txt Ross Callon
- Re: draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-06.txt Thomas Narten
- Re: draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-06.txt Alex Zinin
- draft-touch-ipsec-vpn-05.txt Thomas Narten