Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working group
Meadhbh Hamrick <ohmeadhbh@gmail.com> Fri, 14 January 2011 17:55 UTC
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From: Meadhbh Hamrick <ohmeadhbh@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:57:57 -0800
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To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Subject: Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working group
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hey barry, comments on options: option 1 : find new editors as the author of the overwhelming majority of words in VWRAP IDs, i would LOVE to hand off responsibility for everything except the type system to someone else. the most recent drafts of the IDs are in SVN, and i'm happy to email them to the list or to individuals. i am (more than) happy to discuss the motivations or historical context of various "controversial" phrases. i have some personal stake in the type system since my company is using it for a commercial service. i have numerous issues with the existing type system draft, many are documented in a blog post at: http://blog.meadhbh.org/2010/07/abstract-resource-definitions-vs-llidl.html the changes i'm calling for are kind of extensive, so i changed the name of my type system to DSD (dynamic structured data.) for the last couple of months, the sl8.us service and a couple other services we haven't announced have been using the X-application/dsd+xml and X-application/dsd+json content type. we would like to remove the X- from the front of that since we're developing types that are of general use, implemented using open source software. if we can't find another editor for VWRAP, i'm happy to publish DSD as an individual / informational RFC for the purpose of registering the mime type and to document DSD's use. if we do find another editor and this working group continues, i would yield to group consensus on whether we want to move away from LLSD to DSD. either way, i should finish the documentation i've been saying i would finish for the last three months. option 2 : recharter go for it! (assuming there's consensus.) again, because i'm barred from contributing code to the OpenSim core and i have no interest in maintaining a fork, i'm not personally interested in participating in standardizing hypergrid. but if anyone from the OpenSim group wants to document it in this forum, i'm happy to lend advice, encouragement and whatever minor work the OpenSim peeps think i can contribute without introducing intellectual property weirdness. option 3 : death, coma or hibernation as a casual observer, i'm putting my money on this option. Linden's no longer supporting open virtual worlds. Smithee, et all (my current employer) is only interested in a subsection of the VWRAP work. IBM & Intel seems to be focusing on other things. I know we participate here as individuals, but at the end of the day, it's a lot easier to participate if someone is paying you to do so. the core hypergrid folk always regarded this group as a "linden marketing stunt," so i don't know if there's much interest from that corner to recharter. the OpenSim core, for better or worse, seems to be focused on their implementation, not on protocol standardization. maybe that will change in the future. maybe in a few years there'll be renewed interest in this domain. if there's a snowball's chance in hades that work could get completed, i'll probably try to participate. anyway... i wish everyone here good luck. i think there were some great people here who contributed some great ideas, even if i didn't agree with all of them. -cheers -meadhbh -- meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve" @OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMeadhbh@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote: > Good day, all. > The chairs and area directors have been talking about the status and > future of the VWRAP working group. Owing to changes in focus and > commitment by both companies and individuals, things have been > languishing, and it's not clear to us that we have what we need to get > the chartered work done. The introduction document looked close to > ready, until some controversy on its content and direction brewed, and > the result of that discussion was inconclusive. The normative drafts > that have seen some implementation (type system, launch message, etc.) > also appear nearly technically complete, but some issues have been > identified and not resolved by subsequent discussion, consensus, and > editing. > > At this point, the mailing list has been too quiet for too long, all > the draft documents have expired, and we need to make a decision about > what to do. > > The chairs and ADs see three possibilities: > > 1. Find new document editors, pick up the chartered work with the > existing document base, and get moving again. Get the introduction > document finished by the end of February, and make progress on the > others. > > 2. Come to consensus on significant changes to the direction of the > VWRAP specs, find new document editors, revamp the introduction > document, and get that finished, or substantially so, by the end of > February. Have some clear consensus, clear direction, and enthusiasm > to continue. Consider rechartering, if the direction has changed > enough to require that. > > 3. Accept that we no longer have enough core participation, consensus, > and enthusiasm to make progress, and close the working group. Future > work in the virtual world area could charter a new working group > later. > > Note that options 1 and 2 both require that we demonstrate sufficient > energy and participation to really get work done and to demonstrate > consensus. That means that we need people to commit to > writing/editing documents, actively discussing the technical issues > with the goal of reaching consensus on the content of the documents, > and, importantly, reviewing documents and showing that we have > consensus. Three or four participants isn't enough, and conflicting > ideas that can't be resolved into a consensus-based position won't > work. > > What say you, VWRAP participants? Can we pick up the work and make > progress? Shall we close the working group, and perhaps consider > something in future? Do you favour options 1, 2, or 3? Or do you see > an alternative option you'd like to bring up? > > Barry and Joshua, VWRAP chairs > _______________________________________________ > vwrap mailing list > vwrap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vwrap >
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working gr… Katherine Mancuso
- [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working gr… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Cristina Videira Lopes
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Mark Bannon
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… peter host
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Patnad Babii
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Lawson English
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- [vwrap] Relevant panel at the IEFT: the role of s… Cristina Videira Lopes
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Nexii Malthus
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Patnad Babii
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… mysticaldemina
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Boroondas Gupte
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Boroondas Gupte
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick