Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working group
Dzonatas Sol <dzonatas@gmail.com> Mon, 02 May 2011 01:34 UTC
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Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 18:33:06 -0700
From: Dzonatas Sol <dzonatas@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working group
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In review of HTTPBIS (w/SPDY), TLS, and XMPP for forward-thinking cross-development with VWRAP, the one main concern I have with those and where I think VWRAP needs to focus is the language-agnostic approach in connections and transmissions. If we could move VWRAP more to the core and define default type system for basic data, then we can use the streams from the others to continue progress. The current complication to just add the others is how there is often allowances for JavaScript to control the connection or affect it in any way, which to me is similar to hardware-hacking (and easily breaks stream-ability, complicates batch queries, expects direct browser awareness, and more issues could be said we've known from real hardware-hacking). Those JavaScript allowances obviously have had the web-browser viewpoint paradigm in place, and VWRAP has had the virtual world paradigm. The problem with virtual world paradigm is that from one VW to another VW is like reinventing-the-Internet. I think VWRAP needs to refocus the "world" paradigm to useful patterns to virtualize and "wrap" these other IETF & RFC standards within XML. I don't mean redo every scheme, yet there are obvious patterns in the other WGs (& RFCs) that can use capabilities as deployed and present in VWRAP (yet to be fully outlined) rather than reinvent protocols. VWRAP can use the streams, presence, and TLS possibilities of the other WGs (& RFCs). As I have pointed out here: http://groups.google.com/group/spdy-dev/msg/2fe946257e157684 I continue to make the case/proposal for pivotal data. Imagine all queries being sent through a proxy (like with SPDY enabled) that then bundles (i.e. "wrap"s) up the data into a stream such as this basic flow: <? barebones XML std built-in IETF DTD ?> <XML><IETF wg="vwrap"> <TLS>AVATAR:furryA <HTTP>GET ...</HTTP> <HTTP>PUT ...</HTTP> <HTTP>DELETE ...</HTTP> </TLS> <TLS>AVATAR:furryB <HTTP>POST ...</HTTP> </TLS> </IETF><IETF wg="..."> ... <IETF></XML> If you think of the above flow as batched for the proxy to perform on the agent server, then the http queries could be used to manipulate inventory for furryA and furryB. The agent server could host WebSockets that viewers connect to such that would have those actions processed and then further bundled into the above for the region server to preform. Those http queries can actually be locally done on the region server, which then avoids transmission of the queries. The responses can be further bundled in return to the agent server. This basically projects the queries that would normally take place on the viewer sides into batches on the region. It only looks complicated until you consider the proxy does the http queries instead of the viewer or browser. Follow this pattern to "virtualize" monolithic browsers and viewers. We can design local proxy that acts as the (local) agent service for the viewer/browser. As IPv6 is fully in operation in June, we can use IPv4 clouds to be these proxies/agent-servers to the IPv6 world. The VWRAP enabled clouds adds purpose, not only to proxy, yet to stream, frame, and bundle queries between the IPv4 "region" and the IPv6 "region". Some already consider "the cloud" as the avatar/asset teleport device in regards to virtual worlds. Beside power consumption, one way I visualize these virtualization techniques is imagine your two robots/avatars on Mars and here on Earth you have a 3D surrounded room full of partitioned X-Windows and sound. There is a satellite as the proxy/agent-server. How can we use current protocols optimally to display here what is seen there? On top of that, add security for asset servers. Of note, the charter shows June 2011 for "Digital Assets". We could turn some of those HTTP requests, in the example above, directly into DAEs. When the proxy receives any DAE, the asset is stored into the cache. When the browser/viewer requests that asset item, the local cache already has the item and the browser/viewer possibly does not need to do further queries to the Internet. Essentially, detangled the web. On 04/30/2011 09:45 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: >> That said, we need to be leading this discussion on consensus that can >> be documented and posted. �And we need to focus on that and accomplish >> it soon, for a vague but near-term value of "soon". >> > We had a good bit of discussion in early April. Now that we're at the > end of April, and the discussions seem to have stopped for the last > couple of weeks, I'd like a progress report. Has there been any work > on coming to consensus on the direction the group wants to take? Any > progress on consensus for the contents of an intro/overview document? > > Barry, as chair > _______________________________________________ > vwrap mailing list > vwrap@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vwrap > > -- --- https://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol --- Web Development, Software Engineering, Virtual Reality, Consultant
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working gr… Katherine Mancuso
- [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP working gr… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Cristina Videira Lopes
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Mark Bannon
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… peter host
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Patnad Babii
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Lawson English
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- [vwrap] Relevant panel at the IEFT: the role of s… Cristina Videira Lopes
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Nexii Malthus
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Patnad Babii
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… mysticaldemina
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Carlo Wood
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Fleep Tuque
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Vaughn Deluca
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Boroondas Gupte
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Boroondas Gupte
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Izzy Alanis
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Barry Leiba
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Morgaine
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Dzonatas Sol
- Re: [vwrap] Status and future of the VWRAP workin… Meadhbh Hamrick