Re: [vwrap] The <embed> tag... is the group still interested in LLSD or DSD?

Morgaine <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com> Sun, 08 May 2011 03:45 UTC

Return-Path: <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com>
X-Original-To: vwrap@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: vwrap@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F706E0669 for <vwrap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 May 2011 20:45:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IAqQrd21Kqty for <vwrap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 May 2011 20:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE85E064B for <vwrap@ietf.org>; Sat, 7 May 2011 20:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29so393802qyk.10 for <vwrap@ietf.org>; Sat, 07 May 2011 20:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ozo0rGZ/TP9Oe6gP2M3QorERuHxVEy73ndmba9dZUBc=; b=ZAgG/JUgzfOfHQ5MZEL7YnBAVWtFbqIBeCnaGrwMD91BtdCRAOWAjoas/kxq98rlMp llViMDGz12RrMHbN+Ir/JYDGEzSmAqLlgVNVAjiSG90G8ubQ3fnqKUEVwTP1QfkG89DV nqm75y+F0Qy8rW4A9xT5VSFhawcxlx03YWhLA=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=riThnx2K68lsA81agfFIAbrmjcrSenHtOYJc1RN2A/c8SpqSr85oqc1/fbGyn99/2m EJDMQ8fmazFDMYc/LXnh3XxJZeEauF0a8Y1+wkLEUD/+hDSNZJTxQDuKtatboVka35OF yoAZ9Lil6N36EO03itcU56wgqDC+IqhDrzL6s=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.44.141 with SMTP id a13mr3797778qcf.101.1304826338134; Sat, 07 May 2011 20:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.229.66.212 with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2011 20:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <4DC60610.3040606@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=g9T5q5bVgytpxRxuE=Oc9iG2F9w@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTikTYpLHM=GAeGAVfufqZ5XT0FSAzw@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=kjBSuMjPcgfXTUvZ3iwmS1bN50Q@mail.gmail.com> <4DC17704.3020201@gmail.com> <BANLkTimpGpNrkE3WUdurduqrVumocDRwfQ@mail.gmail.com> <4DC1824B.6040609@gmail.com> <BANLkTi=hhsiDs=fdZRsthp_+5Hs+pR4L6A@mail.gmail.com> <4DC1956A.5020204@gmail.com> <BANLkTik8rnsKP4xq+Gj5G4dsG=UOVnkNSQ@mail.gmail.com> <4DC1A8C9.9090406@gmail.com> <BANLkTikkOS34CC+ML0JNJgHDoRqbs9rY9w@mail.gmail.com> <4DC1D165.7010705@gmail.com> <4DC1D5FC.6040608@gmail.com> <BANLkTik81Eht3NTdLXXmgqOWvjc2s_KBnw@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=-heHa35w43te0ba8NufkT+MP+CQ@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTin6ExR7+xpodbtoTAS_4WyhUXL92Q@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTikjKib79_rLR_s2X=X-ss-+V_yw+w@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTim4aY7oNALbOfZ2V-htivVmQJZDiA@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=7MDUAfjJb697uRwrrxB-4v5fQ3A@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTi=AeC1oLNGFwUWs0Yp_JNEKcaSsag@mail.gmail.com> <BANLkTinNtJiq4JH5qvf36kiKmFtAQArvAA@mail.gmail.com> <4DC60610.3040606@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 04:45:37 +0100
Message-ID: <BANLkTinwSxG3=3eSnKjvFSB1k7fYOEKwPg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Morgaine <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com>
To: vwrap@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636831fa060cbf804a2bb8e14
Subject: Re: [vwrap] The <embed> tag... is the group still interested in LLSD or DSD?
X-BeenThere: vwrap@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Virtual World Region Agent Protocol - IETF working group <vwrap.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/vwrap>, <mailto:vwrap-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/vwrap>
List-Post: <mailto:vwrap@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:vwrap-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vwrap>, <mailto:vwrap-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 03:45:40 -0000

On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Dzonatas Sol <dzonatas@gmail.com>; wrote:

> We need simple, language agnostic (VM) approaches, not language specific
> approaches.



It appears that you haven't understood what I've written.  I'm arguing *
against* the language-specificity upon which LLSD was designed, and
broadening its primitive data types so that all languages are supported
well, including the most efficient ones.

Apparently you agree with me, according to your last statement.

The current LLSD was designed on the basis that its primitive data types
were supported directly by type empoverished languages like Python and
ECMAscript, as Joshua explained to us.  That language-specific approach is
extremely poor, and results in inefficient serializations and inefficient
bindings to the most efficient languages.

That needs to be corrected so that future virtual worlds don't suffer from
the poor design approach used previously.


Morgaine.




===========================

On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Dzonatas Sol <dzonatas@gmail.com>; wrote:

> I vote nay on Morgain's attempt at "social engineering" LLSD code any
> further, especially in the eyes and ears of IETF's Trust, replacement of
> LLSD with "ADT" and such semantics is out of scope. Let's continue our
> mutations (IL) and evolve!
>
> Morgaine, you seem to have an invested interest in specific hardware. We
> need simple, language agnostic (VM) approaches, not language specific
> approaches. Please keep this simple to additional types or clarification.
> DSP does not always means dynamic signal processor.
>
>
> On 05/07/2011 07:22 PM, Morgaine wrote:
>
>> Furthermore, efficient serializations and languages are devised all the
>> time because efficiency is a much-sought engineering goal.� Unless you
>> provide your ADT system with all the normal primitive types for the common
>> hardware architectures, you are inherently discriminating against the most
>> efficient serializations and languages,
>>
>> LLSD is guilty of this, which is what I'm trying to correct for VWRAP.�
>> It's not hard to achieve, but it needs the will for progress.
>>
>
>
> --
> --- https://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol ---
> Web Development, Software Engineering, Virtual Reality, Consultant
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwrap mailing list
> vwrap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vwrap
>