Re: [Webpush] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-webpush-vapid-03: (with COMMENT)

Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> Wed, 16 August 2017 08:42 UTC

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From: Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
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Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:44:11 +0100
Cc: Costin Manolache <costin@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-webpush-vapid <draft-ietf-webpush-vapid@ietf.org>, webpush-chairs@ietf.org, "webpush@ietf.org" <webpush@ietf.org>, Phil Sorber <sorber@apache.org>
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To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Webpush] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-webpush-vapid-03: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Martin,

> On 16 Aug 2017, at 02:24, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>; wrote:
> 
> We have previously discussed the problem of discovering whether a
> server supports a particular authentication scheme.  On the API side,
> we didn't resolve to make a change that would add a mechanism similar
> to what we use for content coding (see
> https://github.com/w3c/push-api/pull/262 for that discussion).  This
> is approximately what Costin is talking about here.
> 
> What has changed since that time is that I have learned that some push
> services *require* authentication.
> 
> For that reason, though it adds delays to sending when authentication
> fails, I'm inclined to add a challenge.  It would be empty, but it
> would allow a server to insist on authentication in a transparent way.
> 
> It IS easy to define: https://github.com/webpush-wg/webpush-vapid/pull/42

Just returning auth-scheme with no parameter is exactly what I was talking about. I like this change.
> 
>> On 16 August 2017 at 03:56, Costin Manolache <costin@gmail.com>; wrote:
>> IMHO out-of-band discovery may be sufficient - in webpush it is implicit or
>> can be part of the
>> subscribe handshake. If VAPID is used with an API the supported auth may be
>> part of the API
>> schema/discovery.
>> 
>> I think in future it may be valuable to add an optional certificate - either
>> as an extra header or parameter -
>> to allow authentication without a database RT. In such mode a mechanism to
>> discover supported
>> roots may be needed - however it can also be done out-of-band.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> Costin
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>;
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-webpush-vapid-03: No Objection
>>> 
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-webpush-vapid/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> COMMENT:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> I have cleared my DISCUSS based on changes in git.
>>> 
>>> I am looking forward to continuing discussion about advertising support
>>> for the
>>> "vapid" authentication scheme in WWW-Authenticate:
>>> 
>>> In Section 3, 3rd para:
>>> 
>>>   This authentication scheme does not require a challenge.  Clients are
>>>   able to generate the Authorization header field without any
>>>   additional information from a server.  Therefore, a challenge for
>>>   this authentication scheme MUST NOT be sent in a WWW-Authenticate
>>>   header field.
>>> 
>>> Does this mean that there is no way to discover whether a particular
>>> server
>>> supports "vapid" HTTP authentication scheme?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Webpush mailing list
>>> Webpush@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webpush
>> 
>>