Re: [websec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-03.txt

Carl Wallace <> Wed, 17 October 2012 17:04 UTC

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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:04:06 -0400
From: Carl Wallace <>
To:, Tom Ritter <>
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Thread-Topic: [websec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-03.txt
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Subject: Re: [websec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-websec-key-pinning-03.txt
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On 10/17/12 12:36 PM, "Ryan Sleevi" <> wrote:

><large snip>
>This leaves the broader question of "How does the site operator know about
>CA_Alice and CA_Bob to begin with". One possible solution for this is a
>report-but-unenforced mode, where user agents could describe their
>observed chains to the site. As unseemly as this is, it's very likely that
>many site operators - even Very Large, High Value sites - may not have a
>full understanding of the PKI that they're a participant in.

A tool that builds all possible paths that the site operator can run
without involving any users would be good too.  The site operator mainly
needs to know where its certificate chains against public stuff and could
check that independently.  This should come close to relegating the user
report tool to oddball instances.

>Another solution is to rely on policy changes in root stores, such as
>Mozilla's recent proposed CA Certificate Store requirements change, which
>would encourage (by requiring, with only one acceptable alternative) the
>public disclosure of such CA hierarchies. As a result of such changes,
>there would be knowledge of the relationship between CA_Alice and CA_Bob,
>which under today's model, is actually quite hard for site operators to

Even with disclosure a builder tool that illustrates possible chains would
be useful.