Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re: Strict-Transport-Security syntax redux)
=JeffH <Jeff.Hodges@KingsMountain.com> Wed, 04 January 2012 18:02 UTC
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Subject: Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re: Strict-Transport-Security syntax redux)
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Yoav Nir said.. > > On Jan 3, 2012, at 1:29 AM, =JeffH wrote: > >> Julian wondered.. >>> >>> wouldn't it make sense to have a default for max-age so it can be made >>> OPTIONAL? >> >> hm ... I lean towards keeping max-age as REQUIRED (without a default >> value) and thus hopefully encouraging deployers to think a bit about this >> and its ramifications, and also because its value is so site-specific in >> terms of a web application's needs, deployment approach, and tolerance for >> downside risk of breaking itself. > > I tend to agree, but it's not deployers who are going to do the thinking - > it's the implementers of web servers. > > So somewhere, in some control panel for IIS, or a config file for Apache, or > some WebUI for some SSL-VPN, there's going to be a configuration to turn on > HSTS, and that product is going to have a default max-age. The deployers are > just going to check the box. > > I think we should provide guidance for those implementers as to what is a > good default there. Yep, very good point, thanks. Adam Barth replied.. > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote: >> On 2012-01-03 07:26, Yoav Nir wrote: >>> >>> On Jan 3, 2012, at 1:29 AM, =JeffH wrote: >>> >>>> Julian wondered.. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wouldn't it make sense to have a default for max-age so it >>>>> can be made OPTIONAL? >>>> >>>> >>>> hm ... I lean towards keeping max-age as REQUIRED (without a default >>>> value) and >>>> thus hopefully encouraging deployers to think a bit about this and its >>>> ramifications, and also because its value is so site-specific in terms of >>>> a web >>>> application's needs, deployment approach, and tolerance for downside risk >>>> of >>>> breaking itself. >>> >>> >>> I tend to agree, but it's not deployers who are going to do the thinking - >>> it's the implementers of web servers. >>> >>> So somewhere, in some control panel for IIS, or a config file for Apache, >>> or some WebUI for some SSL-VPN, there's going to be a configuration to turn >>> on HSTS, and that product is going to have a default max-age. The deployers >>> are just going to check the box. >>> >>> I think we should provide guidance for those implementers as to what is a >>> good default there. >>> ... >> >> >> If we know a good default then it should be the default on the wire (IMHO). >> It would help getting predictable behavior when it's missing. (Right now the >> spec allows recipients to do anything they want then it's missing, right?) > > We should define the behavior in any case, which I guess means I'm > advocating an default max-age of zero. Julian followed up.. > > That sounds good to me; so the grammar wouldn't need to enforce this, > but the effect would be the same. sounds fine to me too. I have text in my working copy in (newly numbered section) "10.1. HSTS Policy expiration time considerations" addressing the above. And so did Tobias.. > > well, the optimal default may actually be depending on the host. > So we might want to describe what good values might be under which > circumstances. > E.g. long time-spans when using very trusted process and provider, > shorter time-spans with less capable / higher risk of bricking yourself > / loosing your private key / ... Yes, i've been thinking about such language and will add a stab at it to section 10.1. =JeffH
- [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re: St… =JeffH
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Chris Palmer
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Adam Barth
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Julian Reschke
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Julian Reschke
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Adam Barth
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? Julian Reschke
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: [websec] default value for max-age ? (was: Re… =JeffH