Re: Feedback from IETF 120 Vancouver post-meeting survey

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 03 September 2024 15:41 UTC

Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98FE5C1840FF for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mpC9lBihYA0Z for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oa1-x2b.google.com (mail-oa1-x2b.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D833C1840F9 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oa1-x2b.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2705d31a35cso3165587fac.0 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725378101; x=1725982901; darn=ietf.org; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FYjjspGgqNlgWiIPC+OC8xSK4BTbVdbdnd+Wvj5W4DA=; b=l+uOCa9QkjcGJ/yUShwNiTEqn4kq4K2V/JIRhh8GNYTJ7MWmAM20ILpo3MlhomY6xh vY0wRhzM0nMH+t3idolqi6mfk5qFvhr9RT9xKgjRoFPQGMCsuO+HWxlrYhQ2BXpR1mkr 8R1AkZX0Sdj98H0eqBNY8hIuvVd448fHNNg/Q3IVfZPONFn86cVjbFc40k5YO8/Hen0J Hg+1McAWYSJ3dtX6PGgZGGUt14F37TEHBY/wD/wyYydwTMcX514JM6KgQTYH4CcSJf3I /8rVWj84x9gNx3dknSmiwNlOoHSLT48muFbDfNduDg4VUktuckJRQbnYyb0Sx1uko3D9 X+RQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725378101; x=1725982901; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=FYjjspGgqNlgWiIPC+OC8xSK4BTbVdbdnd+Wvj5W4DA=; b=jOorSM7/S0N1/JINvX/fwhvnz4dUHygmGJK0m/pFdOXESsqmISxxRnDROawN93ARYg LTjnd9fYZDOS9vREgVp94k8MdjE+TGo6qWoTPGkuBXXgD/N8JOSqZP2QtDSXXVsIm3IC kwI6THjyoLhcSBTb3myZb00ISWOccYUqiYjZ4gOqb2OwXlWRk3Cgl0yrzCDtCfNRm6Ay NpW/GI43dn1Np1h9Yb23dFNfdwvKtTa3zh9VATvj3FUmvE5TyQPB6Fp/HyCHmjIDzXKu je/pTMQbKmiQxTMa2rDNbndCKgow+wLBeSfDJnVSrcc+pXRgsdi2pSp7XCJVUDXyMRX1 BEJg==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUlsEWvi/FHAl3KqoSbErn7r/EqMHqtzjNWktbgaKCunR2N06fz6wb86JZHPl2ly46jwjr9Jc987w==@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw7KuFN7RezFl/b2BydxxOmH8th0QBfPUOOa8hsyZD+eFxTjoPu Wq/njNVs0nAqXWx5rFBnKO8ahGiBzKPCDPL1Lp7vlnSKadQzeW4UXqFqFQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH7WdqDUV7T7ydmJnbGngUM9skoneahvCXbb3at5LEWSK6k2NNipypJ46lZ+jM/vNmMFlMK8w==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:8094:b0:261:b48:3c99 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-277ccc102e8mr13398821fac.23.1725378100906; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:1700:4383:c05f:b8f3:728:cb27:27cf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 586e51a60fabf-277abbd5687sm2949294fac.34.2024.09.03.08.41.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8E317F11-85CD-48E4-8170-983233C8A402"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\))
Subject: Re: Feedback from IETF 120 Vancouver post-meeting survey
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <yblwmjsopcv.fsf@wd.hardakers.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:41:18 -0700
Message-Id: <4FD7F5F6-8E20-4A56-869E-C0340352874F@gmail.com>
References: <7487E6AA-A8BE-42A9-9E80-F85C49ABF026@ietf.org> <CAHbuEH72xCnM6_F+A+jP3nPkNY2sHa_zG4Skbhdu40SBgXSdcA@mail.gmail.com> <cf22ba70-330a-a912-f838-3010fa423f6e@nohats.ca> <dc4b8bba-7f4d-47a1-9376-bf91a9f03b64@lear.ch> <75730386-05fc-4e71-abed-1d4a6c33b4c2@bogus.com> <91b0663e-fa4e-4b26-bd67-94ff5848b39e@lear.ch> <m2ikvdjk43.fsf@owl-home.int.chopps.org> <eb45bf94-8d26-4593-af8f-fa9a83282677@lear.ch> <yblwmjsopcv.fsf@wd.hardakers.net>
To: Wes Hardaker <wjhns1@hardakers.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51)
Message-ID-Hash: CMB7IKJYOFZWAFR74TT5LDOWPKUGSO7B
X-Message-ID-Hash: CMB7IKJYOFZWAFR74TT5LDOWPKUGSO7B
X-MailFrom: bob.hinden@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-wgchairs.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: wgchairs@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/1Z_Tc3iLz5Cu0nRlLQlhP8vAyrg>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:wgchairs-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:wgchairs-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:wgchairs-leave@ietf.org>

Wes,

> On Sep 3, 2024, at 6:09 AM, Wes Hardaker <wjhns1@hardakers.net> wrote:
> 
> Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch> writes:
> 
>> That's not my proposal.  We are, as Kyle noted, adults.  But in some
>> cases it may also be helpful to facilitate the discussion a little
>> better, particularly with long mic lines.
> 
> Things used to be a bit better when we had active jabber scribes that
> were watching the chat.  Chairs (myself included) have slipped away from
> this responsibility, and it may be time to attract a specific person to
> monitor the chat.  I know that some have said the chairs should be doing
> this, but it is often hard to watch carefully as a chair while
> simultaneously monitoring the room, the virtual room, the queue, the
> agenda, the clock, the etc. 
> 

I have also found it hard to monitor the chat and all of the other things you mention when chairing.   When I do, sometimes it is on topic, sometimes it’s still discussing the previous presentation, sometimes it’s on some tangent.   I like the idea of having someone in the room monitoring it and bringing issues to the room.   Or perhaps better, asking people to bring their issue to the meeting queue.

I think there is some validity to Elliot’s point that it can become its own meeting.   Much like we sometimes see on w.g. mailing lists where discussion stop discussing the document, and is about the email comments themselves.   It easier to read the thread, than the document :-(    

Bob