Meeting fees (Was: mic lines not working as well as they used to...)

[Jay Daley <[e-mail]>]

In the new year, I’m going to review the meeting fees and consult the community on possible changes. These are exactly the sort of things that need to be considered so I will ensure they are raised again at that time.

Jay

> On 23 Nov 2022, at 23:29, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 11:08:38PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> I am sure that would kick quite a few participants off the IETF due to cost issues for them.
>> And i am not sure how well our current "pay as you can" options can be stretched and/or
>> would be understood by everybody.
>> 
>> As your recounted experience demonstrates, there shouldn’t be a disadvantage to attending onsite.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> But my example was just one of sub-ideal execution, which IMHO we can fix. After
> all, we may be network professionals, but not meeting management professionals,
> so no issue in us "learning by doing".  Go to other SDOs, and the
> group "chairs" could be full-time paid "meeting professionals". And i am sure
> in general we're doing darn well in comparison.
> 
> In general i think we want to have an environment that allows the best technical results
> (RFCs) from the broadest set of participants. I don't think we can achieve this goal
> without some compromise between local and remote experiences.
> 
> The microphone line IMHO should be easy to improve on.
> 
> The fact that meetecho made it so much easier than jabber in before to chat during
> the meeting - and then have 30% of those chats be useful - that is a much bigger
> issue. Especially because of the 30% usefulness. My suggestion is always to ask
> chat folks to add the 30% themselves to the notes.ietf.org <http://notes.ietf.org/> page for the meeting.
> 
> Aka: If we continue to swap good experiences and proliferate them, things will improve ;-)
> 
> Cheers
>    Toerless
> 
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers
>>    Toerless
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>> 
>>> From: WGChairs <[e-mail]> on behalf of Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>
>>> Date: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:32 PM
>>> To: Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: Working Group Chairs <[e-mail]>
>>> Subject: Re: mic lines not working as well as they used to...
>>> This time around i had a case where i was patiently waiting on the microphone
>>> line in a WG room for probably 10 minutes and then was simply asked by the remote
>>> chair to step away because i had forgotten to put myself into the virtual queue.
>>> 
>>> In that chairs defense, i do not know if he could see the physical microphone line
>>> in the room or not, but the delegate in the room also just did not say anthing,
>>> so i could not participate in the discussion. I have seen this situation being
>>> handled a lot more friendly in other WGs though. So there is definitely a
>>> lot of freedom today already for WG chairs to either be sticklers to the rules
>>> or to foster a collegial discussion atmosphere. My compromise as a WG chair
>>> is to allow each person on the local microphone ONCE in a meeting to have missed
>>> getting into the virtual line for example.
>>> 
>>> With that and similar experiences, i'd say its certainly an issue we struggle with.
>>> 
>>> I am very much a fan of the virtual queue given how i too never
>>> understand peoples names when being mumbled at the microphone. Alas i do not
>>> find the meetecho lite to be particularily easy to use tool on the mobile phone.
>>> 
>>> An actual app might help to avoid having to click through ietf web pages and typing
>>> in login information repeatedly to use meetecho lite. At least that's what troubles
>>> me with the phone option currently.
>>> 
>>> An nfc reader attached to the microphone in the room line would even be better.
>>> You just pass by with whatever registered NFC you have, then you see your name
>>> pop up on the room screen and e voila. Could have the NFC on your badge
>>> holder. Good reason to re-use badge-holders across IETFs and avoid the waste.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>>    Toerless
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 03:02:27PM +0000, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hiya,
>>>> 
>>>> I think we're making a bit of a mistake in requiring people
>>>> who are in the room at meetings to join the meetecho queue
>>>> before they join the physical mic line. It's not an end of
>>>> the world thing, but I think it is a bit damaging.
>>>> 
>>>> The results of what we've done this year seem to me to be
>>>> that:
>>>> 
>>>> - fewer people join mic lines overall
>>>> - there's almost no real discussion of topics raised
>>>>  at the mic as there used be
>>>> 
>>>> I realise that being fair to remote participants needs to
>>>> be a hard requirement, but I think we've gone a bit too far
>>>> and ought back off some, e.g. to where we encourage but
>>>> don't require people (whether remote or in-person) to join
>>>> the meetecho queue. I think we ought also encourage more
>>>> discussion at the mic (for both remote and in-person folks)
>>>> and not be so fixated on the order in which people appeared
>>>> in the meetecho queue. That requires a bit more chairing
>>>> but that's why we're supposedly at the front of the room.
>>>> 
>>>> But, maybe others like the current rigid setup or haven't
>>>> found the lack of mic-line discussion a problem?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> S.
>> 
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-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
[e-mail]