Re: Possible modification to issuing Working Group Last Calls from the datatracker

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Fri, 26 September 2025 20:58 UTC

Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: wgchairs@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6406996401 for <wgchairs@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kgqk7S0bGG7A for <wgchairs@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yw1-x1133.google.com (mail-yw1-x1133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B1916996358 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yw1-x1133.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-749399349ddso32364647b3.3 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1758920300; x=1759525100; darn=ietf.org; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EQHUql97fCG1/DqfmsDxKT7o8miYdAtTY06HDMp7ivA=; b=UoBbOMTLssaKEvHDnan27XRBclbDmN05ktN/Kgin8oiOVNXfqnxoYqz1BY7mBiaCsL dRykR0f8KoDj7OwHWmOCl8kv7AodJJ+W9ZoGydwa7/qdfAf8BR79vCIQ7BLWZ8pt6opt dhKFEiieBYLJuQqsSBH0uaqkAva86X8aM0QMTp+CMaGLU7AyTHn/giPzTc1lTlRdHv2o 5pHLjyRrkr9/wE7WTm3uxxpHyTd0Tb9L0bpO5/ulYpjjQyLpsIdambMzZ51dcbHyiheq Ms6Z+m7mj5JTyiw1cg6pl1EgJxQtit8pI+SntFjS/31DObXxWEmKQmsHsZrSMpaJx684 a53w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1758920300; x=1759525100; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EQHUql97fCG1/DqfmsDxKT7o8miYdAtTY06HDMp7ivA=; b=xJtKj0+j1goJxTYiIvkwRHdjR9i4LF38FZ3VnQs6BOntveDYtyibjxZUBuwlNiZKtu VS/KswohMNootlp4WdUhQQ1/QFnJY5Vid4LNHoZ19MC28tqAXAmPKo2bu5I9v3dauPBI l74K8jdw5T9gXAN50TDF6CSaEr4FHS7RjlP4qcZoH/CJyNhP5hEj+aZF4+o6X1IsGNi7 OovyK/gr60eix9R2a4NxroxXduSfh/lLIl+W6m4S1135kfdBLysp2WYbttzl2OYOmXka GCn6YHSlEZ8y+Dsjey1uTp24mlagN5nq3pQgkc8ISLxd62gddwhZKi6wYA4E2xRhzMur O0KQ==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUv5XTUgxRZYp/BSBEeZ1SymSbQzNxlRqOm9pBNOveIg1zFRIjLXWng1NyKwH1fcm7MOjP9GSeaPA==@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzX6MiKUA261HCRSYnw+skUdT6REMjLSHo8bS/f+Sa+5ete3zzY 02vdyI7CXNfSp8c/Y65f5BSguGdKsIYxV631UNjeWXkPcH2qfKOVWRVT
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct0YNZBe8ImcKKbAkEnb28KeOEGboxanteHpSsthJj8Zv1vpDCcmKRCFYNKcqc XxGTGtky9tWGJvccNsAlZedg2jrHi4goBWpsR40CWSRyMD/OZOUyVE8O/GLixsRszmMMUC9jQok ga3MJTwzDSCNu5Rip9tAhgSBAtaHtLkdgypaOY4NaTnjw+tux14AvjsUoOUr8gMdoFhfJoldNB6 m01X3bKXdFFoMhRlRP0TFNsMCp8/s/VF9gF3tWqsUNLeDH/CAtXosuSI4wluAbfwLGm0CXghVTe T66ozxi3MpY4Mexxu5FkdcMkUYi0NCstJvyJB9BkssIGuEwHa48B9t83mkFG8C51Mw4JWNJmC4A aJH+S+4QeV//cGphlLcPLHzeuCqLbCRVIgL5neUL3Z8zOsnYeJOFXSVoOB+PS4w==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF/dJWkLK3WMuT+LHV7Z/ulE6deKQjlWIApFE/+d6dag+XYxPI6/6135sbWF3S1KAd6RC+tlA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:2443:b0:636:19c8:278e with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6361a75d56fmr6709245d50.14.1758920300272; Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:1700:4383:c05f:2835:c56f:ab09:824d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3f1490d57ef6-eb3e96db2f8sm1206655276.23.2025.09.26.13.58.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_597B14B9-4567-45A3-BD9B-2DC747648CA5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\))
Subject: Re: Possible modification to issuing Working Group Last Calls from the datatracker
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4b227363-2240-4fed-b8a4-03df62408cbf@nostrum.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:57:57 -0700
Message-Id: <374C92BF-F3D8-41BD-9F9B-C80186EBD9E3@gmail.com>
References: <4b227363-2240-4fed-b8a4-03df62408cbf@nostrum.com>
To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81)
Message-ID-Hash: FFGHHYGGER6AKX6QFEYIJISTSK6M6FWG
X-Message-ID-Hash: FFGHHYGGER6AKX6QFEYIJISTSK6M6FWG
X-MailFrom: bob.hinden@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-wgchairs.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "wgchairs@ietf.org" <wgchairs@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/BSGVgTAaldDg-IyuLvsYhPjcCOI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:wgchairs-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:wgchairs-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:wgchairs-leave@ietf.org>

Robert,

This is a good improvement.

A few suggestions:

The change to WG State, like "Issue WG Last call" is at the top.  It’s easy to not fill in the expected weeks in state.   The next step appears to have a 2 week default.  Especially since it says "You may not set the 'In WG Last Call' state using this form - Use the button above or the document's main page to request a WG LC.”   Maybe there is a better way to organize this.

The text in the email "Objections should be motivated and suggestions to resolve them are highly appreciated.”   That doesn’t read well.  Not sure what “motivated” means.   

It would be nice if the end of the email included the names of the chairs.

Lastly, I am curious why the IPR paragrph is needed here.   It is correct, but not sure it is need in a w.g. last call.  

Thanks
Bob



> On Sep 26, 2025, at 9:11 AM, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
> 
> The recent change to the datatracker to send email as a side effect of putting a document in working group last call (or call for adoption issued) surprised several chairs, and requests have been made to make it obvious that mail is about to be sent, and allow that mail to be edited before sending. See https://github.com/ietf-tools/datatracker/issues/9439
> 
> I have a proposal for a change to the workflow to allow this. It's currently running at:
> 
> https://dt-issuewglc.dev.ietf.org
> 
> That's a development instance - remember that your passwords there are all literally "password", and that anything you do there won't _actually_ send any email or make any change at all to the production datatracker database.
> 
> Please experiment with the workflow for issuing wglc for documents in your WGs - start with the edit button next to stream state - the rest is hopefully self explanatory.
> 
> If this approach resonates well, I'll do the same thing to issuing call for adoption.
> 
> (The proposed code changes are at https://github.com/ietf-tools/datatracker/pull/9616)
> 
> RjS
> 
>