Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in our protocols?
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 20 August 2020 15:38 UTC
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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 10:38:06 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-dSDbCfnxT=Nadm9mtY4oY8y5ar-sc7K0h7Xm66FkYs9g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in our protocols?
To: Vijay Gurbani <vijay.gurbani@gmail.com>
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "wgchairs@ietf.org" <wgchairs@ietf.org>
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Just to add one point to Vijay's incantation of IEEE ... On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 7:38 PM Vijay Gurbani <vijay.gurbani@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 6:42 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> > wrote: > >> For IETF purposes, the existence of implementations is very important. >> For some purposes, open source code is useful. >> Depending upon the license, for many purposes looking at open source >> code can actually be harmful to the implementation work. [...] >> > > Dear Joel: Thank you for your comments, much appreciated. > > I will note two things that are important to keep in mind as we develop > our protocols. > > One, you do not need to look very far to ascertain that there is a dearth > of reproducibility in the sciences today, be it in academia or industrial > research.. This has, in part, lead to the stance of IEEE and ACM that I > pointed to in my original email where they have made repositories available > to researchers for storing datasets and software artifcacts. > IETF has a leadership coordination team with IEEE 802 (and that team does occasionally talk about IEEE topics that aren't IEEE 802-specific). I don't see a members list at https://www.iab.org/liaisons/iab-ieee-coordination/ (which is fine), but the most recent minutes at https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2020/06/ietf-ieee802-minutes-2020-02-25.txt contain a list list of attendees, a fair number of whom are on WGchairs (either as chairs, or as IESG or IAB members). Perhaps asking IEEE what legal precautions they took would be instructive? Best, Spencer > Making the source code available mitigates the reproducibility problem, > not in whole, but in substantial part. > > Two, for an organization that prides itself on open and transparent > development of protocols, it seems rather incongruous that a key component > of a protocol --- the source code that implements a protocol --- is kept > secret. Companies and individuals that do not want to share code are free > not to do so. However, that need should not impinge upon the need for > others who can benefit from sharing for the purpose of reproducibility. > Individuals who would rather not deal with compilation and other problems > associated with open source are just as welcome not to worry about it, and > let others who revel in it move the implementation and the protocol ahead. > In most of the cases, the source code is not going to be a production ready > version, so I really see no harm in making these available on a "best > effort" scale. > > In closing, I don't think that expounding the virtues or vices of open > source versus closed source is necessarily the issue here. All of us have > strong viewpoints on this, and for the record, I am more in alignment with > Stephen in the need for the code to be available. It can be made so under > some license just as we handle IPR issues.. Bringing in open versus closed > source code detracts from the larger aim of the discussion here, with all > due respects. > > Thank you. > > - vijay > > > > >
- An IETF repository for working code in our protoc… Vijay Gurbani
- RE: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Adrian Farrel
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Salz, Rich
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Tommy Pauly
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- RE: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Adrian Farrel
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Erik Kline
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Erik Kline
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Bron Gondwana
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Paul Wouters
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Eliot Lear
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Eliot Lear
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Salz, Rich
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Melinda Shore
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Melinda Shore
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Pete Resnick
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Jane Coffin
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Michael Richardson
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani