Re: mic lines not working as well as they used to...

Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Wed, 23 November 2022 15:08 UTC

Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E068C14F74E for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:08:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hxjUI4_EJb31 for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76A20C14F744 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4NHPdT0wCYz6Gs2d; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:08:13 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1669216093; bh=3CBhuZYkqy4Z7GlsJ8ElGHUjzgNmcJ68+mMekRVBUTg=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=Hd8Iu4AozPNoKodG28zAFqN6/VsqfwCHWY92vUZmjQdBiaFPGKIEfcUppvwDo8wMj yRJuGC8XzL1gxINisE8P7wL3nVoGkxK1eIKyjhuusU3jtk19ZYy0kL7oCQfDf3qaT+ rIJOrxX4yVvUM+mY7suJkhn6cAoBKn/uTMk1yheM=
X-Quarantine-ID: <dNrn9l5lpmgn>
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net
Received: from [192.168.21.74] (unknown [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4NHPdS4Hsfz6GrqG; Wed, 23 Nov 2022 07:08:11 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <bea920d0-feba-2007-67b3-6af1b485d322@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 10:08:11 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.0
Subject: Re: mic lines not working as well as they used to...
Content-Language: en-US
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, Working Group Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
References: <9cb6c587-f964-966e-a47d-f97a2aff474a@cs.tcd.ie>
From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
In-Reply-To: <9cb6c587-f964-966e-a47d-f97a2aff474a@cs.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/K80OsXhuSp3IzAgO7vovyY0JRbM>
X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs/>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 15:08:17 -0000

I don't think we can stop requiring the use of the queue, as otherwise 
including remote participants becomes very difficult.

Having said that, maybe there are other changes that can be made to 
address the important issue that we do want discussion of topics at the 
mike.  That is generally why we are having the meeting sessions.

At one point, the plenary used a dual-queue approach where comments on 
the current topic could come forward before folks who wanted to raise 
another issue.  I don't know quite how to represent that with the 
tooling, or how to make it timely enough to be effective, but I wonder 
if something like that could be helpful?

Yours,

Joel

On 11/23/2022 10:02 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>
> Hiya,
>
> I think we're making a bit of a mistake in requiring people
> who are in the room at meetings to join the meetecho queue
> before they join the physical mic line. It's not an end of
> the world thing, but I think it is a bit damaging.
>
> The results of what we've done this year seem to me to be
> that:
>
> - fewer people join mic lines overall
> - there's almost no real discussion of topics raised
>   at the mic as there used be
>
> I realise that being fair to remote participants needs to
> be a hard requirement, but I think we've gone a bit too far
> and ought back off some, e.g. to where we encourage but
> don't require people (whether remote or in-person) to join
> the meetecho queue. I think we ought also encourage more
> discussion at the mic (for both remote and in-person folks)
> and not be so fixated on the order in which people appeared
> in the meetecho queue. That requires a bit more chairing
> but that's why we're supposedly at the front of the room.
>
> But, maybe others like the current rigid setup or haven't
> found the lack of mic-line discussion a problem?
>
> Cheers,
> S.