RE: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants - follow up

[Dave Thaler <[e-mail]>]

I> -----Original Message-----
> From: WGChairs <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Xipengxiao
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 1:17 AM
> To: [e-mail]; Greg Wood <[e-mail]>
> Cc: WG Chairs <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants - follow up
> 
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> 
> Hi Greg and folks,
> 
> I read the letter.  It doesn't feel like a message "to my boss" (a person that I
> know well), more like a message "to company management" (people that I
> don't know well).  If I have to write a message to convince my boss to let me
> go to London or Yokohama, I will write something like this:
> 
> 1. My draft is at a crucial point.  Presenting it on site will allow me to see how
> the chairs and other people react.  This is useful to decide the next steps.
> 
> 2. Attending on site will allow f2f discussions with some key people. Only
> through this can I know their true opinion about the draft (and build/enhance
> relationship with them).  Standardization has a personal aspect in addition to
> the technical aspect. Remote attendance miss the personal aspect.
> 
> 3. If there is budget concern, I will not request to attend every IETF meeting in
> person, but only those when the draft is at a crucial point.
> 
> Hope this helps.

+1, love this wording.

The above would address my feedback since it concentrates on the differences between in-person vs virtual attendance.  Nice and succinct.

Dave


> 
> XiPeng
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WGChairs <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 1:28 AM
> To: Greg Wood <[e-mail]>
> Cc: WG Chairs <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants - follow up
> 
> Hi,
>         If we're really going to do this, it might be nice to have some indicators of
> success, if we could be convinced to measure them. How often does this letter
> actually work? If it did, what about it resonated with their boss? If it didn't
> work, why not? What were the questions they wanted answered but weren't
> covered, or what didn't resonate? In the past, when I've had to convince start
> ups to fund my trips, I typically was asked 1. How much will it cost (or they tell
> me here's the budget, make it work), 2. How much time will it take that
> week/will you be doing IETF things vs how much time will be spent performing
> your day job (APAC trips are brutal :)) and 3. What do I get out of it? I realize
> this might not have been the initial point of the "convince your boss" thread,
> but I didn't see a lot of Venn diagram overlap, so thought I'd share.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sarah
> 
> > On Oct 4, 2022, at 3:39 PM, Greg Wood <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for all the feedback and really good discussion! I do want to note that
> this text is intended to be a starting point for adaption to a person's particular
> situation so not expected to cover all cases. Hopefully it provides enough
> scaffolding to make it easier for those who are looking to build their own cases.
> >
> > I've updated the template note based on the input with details below:
> >
> >
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnotes.i
> etf.org%2Fietf-meeting-convince-your-
> boss&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C4f65c4fa5f754737
> 737a08daa6aa03c5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
> 8005546395307605%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&a
> mp;sdata=Jyn%2BlX4vwlHuMb1BnLY%2BL2EJsH5Xdk3x9ATH3VqacKo%3D&am
> p;reserved=0
> >
> > I'd be particularly interested from anyone who shares this with participants
> in their groups (perhaps folks who would like to come but don't yet have
> support from their orgs) and, if so, I'd love to know whether they find it useful.
> >
> > Feel free to (have them) email directly with information about that.
> >
> > Again, this is an experiment and it seems like there is interest, so developing
> other versions of this is definitely something we could work on.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> > +++
> >
> > Feedback on "Convince your boss"
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Here is what I heard and tried to incorporate it (please let me know if I've
> missed something):
> >
> > a) Provide more direct examples of how in-person interaction at the meeting
> would be useful
> >
> > I've added some example text and also explanatory notes about how to
> use/augment it
> >
> > b) include the case where the company is leading in a particular area
> >
> > Included an option for someone authoring an I-D (though this may not fully
> cover the point)
> >
> > c) Consider other modes of participation in addition to in-person
> participation at a meeting, particularly with in-person participation more
> difficult to get approved.
> >
> > This note is intentionally tailored to in-person participation, but parallel
> notes for modes like online meetings and general IETF participation could be
> also developed. Since the question was raised, I do want to note that the
> general motivation for this effort is to promote IETF participation *generally*
> (mailing list contributions, etc.) so that is definitely something I'd like follow up
> on.
> >
> > d) Convince the lawyers!
> >
> > This is very an interesting point that I am not familiar enough with to suggest
> text. I am following up directly.
> >
> > e) Will this lead to sales?
> >
> > In general, this doesn't seem to be a case that can/should be made directly
> for attending an IETF meeting.
> >
> > f) provide examples of post-meeting reports
> >
> > This seems like something that is generally company-specific in format and
> person-specific in terms of content, but if folks have previous (perhaps
> redacted) examples they could share as part of a library, that would be a great
> starting point.
> >
> >> On 28, Sep2022, at 10:22, Greg Wood <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello!
> >>
> >> As an experiment, based on material some other technology conferences
> provide to (potential) participants, and at the suggestion received from an
> IETFer, we've created a draft "Convince Your Boss" note that might be used by
> someone seeking approval to attend an IETF meeting in-person:
> >>
> >>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnotes.i
> etf.org%2Fietf-meeting-convince-your-
> boss&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C4f65c4fa5f754737
> 737a08daa6aa03c5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
> 8005546395307605%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&a
> mp;sdata=Jyn%2BlX4vwlHuMb1BnLY%2BL2EJsH5Xdk3x9ATH3VqacKo%3D&am
> p;reserved=0
> >>
> >> Any and all comments about whether this might be useful to you or
> participants in your groups, or suggestions about how it might be tuned to be
> more useful, would be most welcome - either on this list or directly to me.
> >>
> >> More broadly, it would be useful to know whether there is any specific
> information or material that would make it easier for IETF participants to
> participate in the IETF-not just meetings, but also (for example) devoting time
> to work in the IETF. Again, I'm happy to receive suggestions directly or on the
> list.
> >>
> >> Please let me know if I can provide more information or answer any
> questions.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> -Greg
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Greg Wood
> >> IETF LLC
> >> [phone]
> >>