Re: Turning off Etherpad

["Andrew G. Malis" <[e-mail]>]

Toerless,

Note that you currently need to use your Datatracker login to access
CodIMD/HedgeDoc, so it's actually not public. And I think that's the
correct way to do it, as it's intended for meeting participants (who all
have Datatracker logins in order to participate) to provide notes regarding
IETF meetings and work.

If you really do want it to be public, then I suspect that's something to
take up with the IESG rather than making the point on this list.

Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 12:12 PM Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 11:27:41AM +1000, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> > My understanding was always that etherpad was a best-effort, ephemeral
> service; i.e., there was no guarantee (implicit or explicit) of stability
> or availability. That's probably the right policy, given that there able to
> be edited by *anyone on the Internet*.
>
> Yes. But my comments where not about the intent of etherpad,
> but if/what we would want to do now to preserve history, even
> if that was not a desire when we started using it.
>
> The main question IMHO is whether we could publish the whole content
> of etherpad or not. I would like to see that question answered. If
> the answer is yes, then we can discuss if and/or how to do that.
>
> If the answer is no, then i guss a tar file could still go into the
> IETF vault, and later generations could figure out if/who might
> be able to take a look at it.
>
> > We might consider a somewhat more formal and explicit policy on service
> stability and availability (on a service-by-service basis), so that folks
> aren't surprised by this in the future. E.g., the W3C has:
> >   https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Persistence
>
> Right. My suggestion for codimd was exactly around that IMHO:
>
> - declare CodiMD content to be public.
> - automatically make older CodiMD content read-only
>
> The conflict between this goal and the design of etherpad/codiMD is that
> boh seem to be based on confidentiality by obscurity, e.g.: no
> public search and/or list of pages...
>
> Cheers
>     Toerless
>
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > > On 11 Aug 2021, at 11:24 am, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > >
> > > So, what is he plan for archiving etherpad.ietf.org ?
> > > Can/will the be made read-only/no new data ?
> > >
> > > Or is all that content that may still have URLs in emails and other
> places
> > > pointing to it deemed to be lost except for the subset of pages that
> > > where converted into IETF meeting minuts by WG chairs ?
> > >
> > > If all this content is meant to be lost because it is too difficult to
> > > change to read-only, is this the same strategy for codimd ? Aka:
> > > if you do not save it, it will be lost at some point in time ?
> > >
> > > If converting to read-only is too difficult, maybe the whole tree
> > > can just be put up for download as a tar file for any future
> researchers...
> > > However, i am not sure if all the content is meant to be public, or if
> > > we did assume some degree of possible confidentiality because of
> non-searchable
> > > namespace.
> > >
> > > Btw: I think it would be great if codimd would solve these issues:
> > > You can only create new names under whatever.ietf.org/2021/
> <your-string-here>
> > > and after 2 years the whole years directory tree turns read-only with
> > > indexing/search...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >    Toeless
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 06:05:34PM -0700, Fred Baker wrote:
> > >> People use it in recording our minutes. Losing it would be
> unfortunate.
> > >>
> > >>> On Aug 10, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Robert Sparks <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Chairs -
> > >>>
> > >>> We are making plans to turn down etherpad.ietf.org in a few weeks.
> Let me know of any concerns or need for delay.
> > >>>
> > >>> RjS
> > >>>
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---
> > > [e-mail]
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>
> --
> ---
> [e-mail]
>
>