Re: wiki.ietf.org and content-o-thons

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Thu, 22 September 2022 19:10 UTC

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 21:10:24 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
Cc: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>, Greg Wood <ghwood@staff.ietf.org>, WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: wiki.ietf.org and content-o-thons
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References: <51043A54-F3A7-4E92-817E-EF03E2F95126@staff.ietf.org> <CAJU8_nU3y4=6Xk8yr4JdXu7=obs2LgOcnaA5puf+r-XPtViL2w@mail.gmail.com> <2e5a3876-ed23-53be-ae3f-9582a972e974@nostrum.com>
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I do remember some IESG members suggesting us to experiment with living documents
so that we are not stuck ONLY with our current quite tedious -bis process we have for 
updating RFCs.

I also think to remember that we had the concerns of "killing" *.ietf.org URLS through
the ongoing improvements to our infratructure, when those URLs have been widely circulated
and are thus assumed to be stable. Aka: there already is a good amount of expectation
if not desire to keep some subset of *.ietf.org URLs stable wrt to the "type" of content
they have (not necessarily unmodifyable).

I would not understand, why wiki.ietf.org/<something> should not be considered to be
as "stable" URLs as en.wikipedia.org/<something> - for some well defined <something>.

There are 125 references to such en.wikipedia.org URLs in RFC. So why not simply do
the same for wiki.ietf.org ? Aka: at best it seems as if wiki.ietf.org is "wide open"
wrt to any structure for <something> and we may want to have some plan for what to use
for <something> for such cases.

Cheers
    toerless

On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 01:50:13PM -0500, Robert Sparks wrote:
> Hi Kyle - that's a pretty unusual request, and no, the wiki isn't the right
> tool.
> 
> I'm a little surprised by the structure proposed here - I assume there's
> been a conversation where the IESG has been involved? I'd like to visit with
> you and  the responsible AD to build a little more context.
> 
> RjS
> 
> On 9/22/22 1:31 PM, Kyle Rose wrote:
> > Greg,
> > 
> > The authors of a doc in MOPS imminently need to set up a live page
> > with a stable URL referenced in a (currently in AUTH48) RFC. Ideally,
> > this URL would point to a hostname within the ietf.org domain,
> > resolving to an IETF-owned system that responds with a 302 to a
> > different (updateable) URL where the actual live content lives. Is the
> > wiki appropriate for this kind of thing, or is there another option
> > that is even more appropriate? Using the wiki gives me slight pause,
> > in the sense that these kinds of CMSes tend not to live forever; but
> > with the URL in ietf.org, a future non-wiki system could at least
> > provide the same redirection functionality.
> > 
> > Thoughts or suggestions?
> > 
> > Kyle
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:37 PM Greg Wood <ghwood@staff.ietf.org> wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > > 
> > > The site wiki.ietf.org provides wikis for IETF-related groups and meetings. If you help lead an IETF or IRTF group (e.g. working group, research group, or directorate) that currently maintains or is contemplating creating a wiki to support your work, there are several resources now available to help set up your new wiki:
> > > 
> > > + A dedicated page about contributing to wiki.ietf.org:
> > > 
> > > https://wiki.ietf.org/contributing
> > > 
> > > + A persistent Zulip channel at:
> > > 
> > > https://zulip.ietf.org/#narrow/stream/352-wiki-ietf-org
> > > 
> > > + Several upcoming content-o-thons:
> > > These informal online gatherings provide dedicated time to move or create content on(to) the new IETF wiki platform. They aim to help:
> > > 
> > >      + move existing group wikis to the new platform,
> > >      + gather feedback on site-wide features and other aspects as people gain experience with the platform, and
> > >     + identify and develop resources to help create and maintain wikis.
> > > 
> > > Here are details (with .ics files attached):
> > > 
> > > Virtual Content-o-thon on 29 September at 1400 UTC
> > > https://ietf.zoom.us/j/3671772413?pwd=TzhsaTNXcHhVYTRRMWEwUml3WnhwQT09
> > > 
> > > Virtual Content-o-thon on 18 October at 2200 UTC
> > > https://ietf.zoom.us/j/3671772413?pwd=TzhsaTNXcHhVYTRRMWEwUml3WnhwQT09
> > > 
> > > After the successful hybrid content-o-thon at IETF 114, we’re planing to hold one during IETF 115. Details will be confirmed shortly.
> > > 
> > > As previously shared [2], content across instances of the old IETF wiki platform (Trac) will be maintained in archives. The current timeline anticipates turning down Trac instances in November 2022.
> > > 
> > > Please let me know if I can provide additional information.
> > > 
> > > -Greg
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Greg Wood
> > > IETF LLC
> > > +1-703-625-3917
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [1] https://js.wiki
> > > [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/AB_HgAiQXmg0tbgwzvrVUZ8tk3c/
> > > 

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de