Re: Pre-BoF documents and mailing lists

Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 06 August 2019 18:29 UTC

Return-Path: <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E06F120309 for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6LJ2Nr4xTPD for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com (mail-ot1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 243791202F9 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id l15so37686429oth.7 for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 11:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5i4g/lQBgCNJUw/d4LLQI5+MCtMz4RTNVmKrCVfei0w=; b=pYhblYCr3qQTy2Pfpl4GLY99W0ACQZY9mf9Vwq/3jZHBqOohIfdjy3B/FuafXGzSzh Nc0EuHNFeHSbvCyCSpcxo2BQZuKXWpEhRaUxGA0oWyGhx5mIhySyClnfDeUpuLhrLpD3 VOEnRAB1TB+KdFh2hyZz9RLduc9a3Ap6Goqqb0ER7oHjEP6168IQpx0AEQq9jOUuMqfo izT/EtQiT7E81gVVY7hybBknmrFg/7vR97Pew4chw036dIyWrilZccJxYloB4K/aWcdL zKsvrzd15+fQlQJ3FhA3MGgUujEkWPhqYjWsxqqFB9nRPmHI4hZud6y2ZF73kK00arcg bwpQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5i4g/lQBgCNJUw/d4LLQI5+MCtMz4RTNVmKrCVfei0w=; b=S3uUA+sM0DQGzJPLCC3BFkyBiMNYkW2LkrVmkt2FYmpwpYJyHPGrWBB8I9SF1Ezpwa XB+NlD+dHphk69dvS8pNBVKk2dqOR1Ts2Pr0hY+cQi0+UWe2ogYGTEH2FK2S7T301yB6 qFcyx+nD2YUGLl23ga8UMYbBglrTRjJeO7D0DsPUP1foWBndu8fSDsND+zQeHIFSypay PLp1gMSC+tNfD2AUNI20aZm1W8qnAYdHKFWka/auQMz2Cmfy3uCA+TQoQjOGrQCAQGuP XwM/+J5XBTn5E0YAciUBdKJb2wQYZdqb/Q6CpD9IY5j7NPeCpseXFcOsXJLELRVjnngf 4gfw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXXZqsVr5S/JB8/uuqinm8b8KcLWauvhUDam2SV4EeHz1PdjR2O LRb3j/c1uCIY0AFPTTXHslk=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqymfvVVC+qQzLv04l7rQlxvp8crmUZVMdHyZrAQ1gShXAg5S0BaOQ9hcCH8ACPrMpYBA34dgQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:4e0d:: with SMTP id p13mr4661487otf.161.1565116188263; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 11:29:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5903:df16::1043? ([2600:8802:5903:df16::1043]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q20sm29586023otm.32.2019.08.06.11.29.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Aug 2019 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3570.1\))
Subject: Re: Pre-BoF documents and mailing lists
From: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <2FC4B6D4-0FAD-4780-95DE-39285CB0EF1C@akamai.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 11:29:46 -0700
Cc: WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <EB8DFBCD-6038-4F79-A6DD-3F7551793796@gmail.com>
References: <CC38659B-895A-4B02-9B03-D6CCC6D1AF32@akamai.com> <745dea99-e3b6-bef2-95a8-4bd7b48a504b@joelhalpern.com> <254101B6-F94C-4D73-9277-F830EE24D981@gmail.com> <2FC4B6D4-0FAD-4780-95DE-39285CB0EF1C@akamai.com>
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3570.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/bTuIfOaJTj5ahyHZIoSV1Ib-VgY>
X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs/>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 18:29:51 -0000


> On Aug 6, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Salz, Rich <rsalz@akamai.com> wrote:
> 
>>   I would agree. I'll also note, though, that people seem to be using GitHub as a means of discussing documents, and that without the use of the list.
> 
> I don't want the thread to migrate, but I will point out that GitHub doesn't make commentary "vanish" when something is resolved, and that discussion of that topic is happening over on the IETF list.

True, but (and respecting your desire for the topic to not wander - I actually think it's the same topic or at least related) if I'm following the IETF list, I have no clue that there might be a related topic somewhere in GitHub (where in GitHub, specifically? Is that one place?), or in some random Google Doc, or that there was one in the past that I should read through.

There are at least two conversations, which might have disjoint sets of participants, unaware of each other, looking at the same or different data, and arriving at potentially diametrically opposed viewpoints, each of which is held in consensus among some set of people.

What I think I would want is one set of threads that is "master", and to which other threads are mirrored if necessary. I want to be able to follow or investigate a topic without having to become a forensic pathologist or archeologist.

I'm also related to RSSAC. We use Google Docs extensively in RSSAC. The difference is that our different conversational threads are explicitly different - the conversation about a given document *all* happens in that document, and if there is a related email exchange, it refers to the document.