Re: problem with recent drafts on {35440727}

Jay Daley <> Wed, 10 March 2021 18:00 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FB53A14AA for <>; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 10:00:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12sFC6k-m18b; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:59:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from jays-mbp.localdomain (unknown []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5EE7B3A14A2; Wed, 10 Mar 2021 09:59:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Daley <>
Message-Id: <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_09CAB8BF-47FA-47A0-91CD-5C7B00E3FBC2"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.\))
Subject: Re: problem with recent drafts on {35440727}
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 06:59:51 +1300
In-Reply-To: <>
Cc: Working Chairs <>, "Livingood, Jason" <>
To: Stewart Bryant <>
References: <> <> <> <> <>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.
Archived-At: <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2021 18:00:01 -0000

The incident that Henrik is referring to is fully documented in the board minutes and previously shared on this list:

> We recently had an incident where one of the servers operating <> failed irreparably. There were some services running exclusively on that server that therefore needed to be moved to other servers, which Henrik and another volunteer were able to do. However some performance issues remained on other services for a few days due to DNS configuration issues. To prevent a recurrence, we proposed to Henrik that the management of the DNS move to AMS so that they can make emergency changes in situations like this. Henrik’s response to this proposal was quite intense and included a threat to turn off <> and all its services if we made this change.

You are of course welcome to escalate any concerns about this to the LLC board of directors (start with Jason as the Chair).


> On 11/03/2021, at 12:17 AM, Stewart Bryant <> wrote:
> This is most disturbing.
> Who is Jay’s boss?
> Stewart
>> On 10 Mar 2021, at 11:02, Henrik Levkowetz <> wrote:
>> Hi Fred,
>> Someone alerted me to this.  I don't read any IETF lists any more, so
>> needed the nudge:
>> On 2021-03-04 20:15, Fred Baker wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Lou Berger <> wrote:
>>>> Well this is a troubling response -- does anyone know if there's
>>>> plans for I would have thought that some thought
>>>> would be given to this and maybe some announcement made to the
>>>> IETF. Did I miss it??? Are we just destined to the whims of bit
>>>> rot?
>>> I think there was an announcement that Henrik was leaving, and I
>>> certainly knew that there was a conflict between him and DMS/Glen's
>>> work.
>> There has been no conflict between me and AMS/Glen, none at all.  There
>> has been a great deal of conflict with the way the LLC Board and Jay
>> has been running things and what they have put me through, and I'm deeply
>> unhappy with them, but not at all with AMS or Glen.
>> The latest incident was with Jay at the beginning of February, after
>> the end of my contract but at a time when I was still committed to
>> maintaining as I have been doing it.  That February
>> encounter did however completely zap my motivation for keeping
>> up, and I now just want to be able to get completely
>> away from it.
>> It used to give me great pleasure, thanks to the appreciation of all
>> the good people in the IETF community, but now after the latest Jay
>> incident it only reminds me of the pain of last year.
>> Best regards,
>> 	Henrik
>>> What might be nice wold be if people could somehow advise the
>>> LLC that they use some specific tool, and would like to see it ported
>>> into the AMS toolset. I would include the ability to subscribe to a
>>> meeting calendar attached to or derived from derived from the IETF
>>> Agenda. I use the "tools style" calendar and subscribe to it - in
>>> large part because I keep all of my calendars in one tool and have
>>> calendars that are unrelated to the IETF, so the ability to subscribe
>>> to a calendar that lists a subset of the meetings at a given IETF
>>> meeting is very useful to me.
>>> For clarity, I am attaching what my calendar looks like fr the week
>>> of IETF 110, and includes IETF meetings, ICANN's prep week for ICANN
>>> 070, and some work in the ITU, in addition to personal events. If I
>>> have a complaint in that, it is that ICANN and ITU don't seem to see
>>> the value of subscribing to a calendar, but rather send out events -
>>> when then become outdated as time goes on. I would not want IETF to
>>> become deficient in that respect. 

Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director