RE: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants

Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> Wed, 28 September 2022 16:57 UTC

Return-Path: <dthaler@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83D0C1524B8 for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:57:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.681
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.681 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.571, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XaQmU8JgnKBf for <wgchairs@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from na01-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eastus2azlp170100001.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f403:c110::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAC22C14CF0C for <wgchairs@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=QNFJ0VVr0pIulIKu0VhJz2uYcPJSQYZCabDosQBmH7Z7e2lxu5+mvWV2rVJHAVqSGtHnAWvMZOeQSj5T3pMfHYV9jW4oYOv/UUftMuDoFURCezFJ9uKXEsVIL3fVlEBCMF27WXHX8nebk/id7vA+hJVOi2XoLPEOmCLE1EQPb1yTpv4ueEyGu8yYovbRoR1ZtdpHz/ke7ViDY14dQ44TdDXns+LwXQD773nWXa7Q43wU4NSBPCr7PkhRPEYTZ51MQ25ohSbImmRKHMuiUP1xt6HR6DxRZwTFjwb0EF2j1nofiRd9DC4lgEapztFgcsTbyxV7E3qnZwj8H9pnEA3lZQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=oDRo+BbA9eS6CfpN9jvWQw3n+/5CB4RBOyvICanrqqU=; b=WfBc7HQ6UbjXUOFOv2UAaDn08p2RGvPXKixnJwTtbEF7mt6fxAhAg+QAV9h+iigaWS93FAeBQwNEujdlNSscoqtcZY1lZvd/LSSewhWrL/D3VdkwAndvmfsBpqGKX6hCS0XwJxJsc0SmxTy8yGZJuyCjcmgt7qqF6lGchaHAhKQHpXd7zqARVsD0t9Q/aStq9VbtrzRFH6e7wSxHeyR4mS61i87+BxmKQZ2y9eBs3LblbGzZct3aq6/iKzojh/YqT2W5FQF/TWpOpNkS3Toy3EItMDupm/qqm/VFVU3s34N3ngeJALPsYdx2W4180AHGB9lS5TrGYXTg1GMIlAN7iw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=microsoft.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=microsoft.com; dkim=pass header.d=microsoft.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=oDRo+BbA9eS6CfpN9jvWQw3n+/5CB4RBOyvICanrqqU=; b=QX/H9k/S0MippHlJjgmGZ5kKBkZqebrUzqGdvso/U1yHT3ZhS6/Wcy2CCDEzSlsoXmtjao8CZUxR4CB8lwrn+QW7IsxVB/7IigBwhOeccrJS4OEcdXWmOe+cbra3Ts1eTSCNZJEs2bL/ftz3bDeI3TxLLzwnLI/qpd0fgHmjSu0=
Received: from DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:ad::14) by PH7PR21MB3140.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:1d4::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5709.0; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:57:04 +0000
Received: from DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5872:7dd2:2a86:c111]) by DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5872:7dd2:2a86:c111%8]) with mapi id 15.20.5676.014; Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:57:04 +0000
From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: Greg Wood <ghwood@staff.ietf.org>
CC: WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants
Thread-Topic: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants
Thread-Index: AQHY00W61TWiGG0EikK1Bj0zZWMrJq309VqAgAAYUXA=
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:57:04 +0000
Message-ID: <DM4PR21MB34404B1D38C9C8D1A71296BFA3549@DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
References: <475BFEC7-9F58-483F-85E9-84D535C4B73C@staff.ietf.org> <YzRmax4O2lxayqBA@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
In-Reply-To: <YzRmax4O2lxayqBA@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ActionId=4439a1b3-6675-489f-ba94-2b054b0f2cff; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=Internal; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2022-09-28T16:48:17Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47;
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=microsoft.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM4PR21MB3440:EE_|PH7PR21MB3140:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8bfc14a2-0b98-4a46-7001-08daa1727852
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230022)(4636009)(346002)(376002)(366004)(39860400002)(396003)(136003)(451199015)(64756008)(66556008)(76116006)(4326008)(66946007)(186003)(66476007)(66446008)(8676002)(966005)(478600001)(6916009)(316002)(86362001)(10290500003)(5660300002)(2906002)(53546011)(8936002)(52536014)(7696005)(9686003)(66899015)(6506007)(41300700001)(71200400001)(38100700002)(82950400001)(82960400001)(122000001)(40140700001)(38070700005)(33656002)(83380400001)(55016003)(8990500004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?f09xW0CmjkQeTn9zVucIHL7PlrfLQnFC1UAI8X8InY7Fr5SJl82j44lJJmzO?= =?us-ascii?Q?l/dEC8kt7+/Y5LxelYvEwgtj3WG3eU7twcgZ8gVkOeW7xCc5z+vyABG1pwix?= =?us-ascii?Q?H8I3n+cd/eN627OAKdFbxu/TFQ2lrXmrgpPARnVB3lE0Stn8eAWm8gVGXk9x?= =?us-ascii?Q?dD8NzWQD3TEe0hle2uk/47BhZ7FePDADGOUuFCdE8QvcwC0MrKewQg/9Dje4?= =?us-ascii?Q?TPD0SFEfGYACTWo8x9vXoxsLONsmC8AF+MrTC5YFX+N6dvfFzMS1StacpmXs?= =?us-ascii?Q?0C88fIBU1XeV5mLP0qcRcb0qQ5HMEjywhhFUoWL2UbOvW/7d4a8ZDCugwfV5?= =?us-ascii?Q?XWzPb4ZNNt1xa3tpRmtvmu1IDTpICR1fSA8/DJNCJrRY869442q2zsaY7NrB?= =?us-ascii?Q?JmwhKec6c2q/gTOPYmORcVRn+NJ1nEUlhzj7UQ1dUEaSIWJ5XRvygsKRBewH?= =?us-ascii?Q?EAF8FpWbh80blT7tDOJXRIrvdy8Zj/ab5sMHblUXz/UDSrRsfUKtzT48JrjT?= =?us-ascii?Q?phb2h//+RodrtuvFbKsFNrLZVj6uujxPk5BBM0NHbD4NsXnSTDqdANHKgap8?= =?us-ascii?Q?+Gb5OO1PeGqADwOf3K4qoSWTeWGKpy6h4oMLpUJlmKqmrc83cMy+7ysBohDY?= =?us-ascii?Q?M+e1It4EZb0HsckqzV1J5yuv0Xp3a6yviHyNeixySihYyKG48+B1wnqpy/rB?= =?us-ascii?Q?AzXpTG2Ap2D1A5NV1+A6DsnBoZyvlh4ihNIogZ+ngubqgoxCqEgCNB+sXSmX?= =?us-ascii?Q?bit3jtHgXi0gZmhkQSpXrEZPrlXG+XDQPBzSsiHmLklzyvAOHYD35V9TWRd8?= =?us-ascii?Q?zGWB5rSFewm6vNmd7CQ9dt7jScoQqmiypy4teNSvC90rCB1aoEEWv2JTVzIc?= =?us-ascii?Q?UDM4iIVZpWlmFkLcOQEIuMv/EUYcJiH5Ot7OpcKat6ZnCWbHuqwlh5VcILzQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?g0aKmxTdlgvGUMH8Mu+QPziQCM4tU+HwoOBzkN7A2bRbYHBWBqAIs5P8TKVr?= =?us-ascii?Q?jZp2wttRVzBUS2dnSmZ8X69xLzdJ7q7FLyaqwPnF4b3zh/ZdajNvKvoMwRkH?= =?us-ascii?Q?OhG5rjhtiGaDyh4FroUbMJ1e5Wt9bYZgxIEpSWiA4ExEoHXJsmnlmYk3BY6c?= =?us-ascii?Q?Yba6UWGZtLHYvRrxKk0QUF4bCtRzDzwK/idqVA/oUw6RExYSMJonO0hKt9X4?= =?us-ascii?Q?C8aNQ7QzDXFGA3t8c1ePu9f1FkblJFZHNcwIaFxdm+4DfzHaEn37bdtBnXXa?= =?us-ascii?Q?7rFdbRVuBDFMaQyxiUH/Qo3KgRJWEMRFcYt6OKvpz5proMdoBgxi6FolQUFR?= =?us-ascii?Q?rOhrIGc5bYb+MMwjpwXpqc8ddltRRogWl4MtdzuWCQ5ItNNic3WtFYG4ePoV?= =?us-ascii?Q?HEwhbwiJfDYwSWUi2fbi+kUZakH9QfbFXVp+pbKIbeJ52xH00FtCWXWichHp?= =?us-ascii?Q?Tk7HdzQzrUDqajI+QNccAiM29rIVRQqGEqAEZ/uHrX+ljG09iKZ0+2RyFHjQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?2qGluyiS/NpvVVz1t6IGZO1ip4YOlQJjGbN1txDkuTJHiU5S60niJc6+mh6K?= =?us-ascii?Q?jVtSc8E+n1jzSnja568Z7ObsjveBTsUk2W8+62qC06AYqZMvP1BTDsofgqc6?= =?us-ascii?Q?6Q=3D=3D?=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM4PR21MB3440.namprd21.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8bfc14a2-0b98-4a46-7001-08daa1727852
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Sep 2022 16:57:04.3202 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Y6lBzEavSu8ABRa1xez9JKGl1XDFOYWu7wB5uNvNZn21T72yROB4bRx80nYjzr06Z+ReK4rwaq9IOQIgVnNGhenbDaZIrQL8w9hAA2rRQQs=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH7PR21MB3140
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wgchairs/naif0kkeI0iWzBoE2VhA0QtJLbg>
X-BeenThere: wgchairs@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wgchairs/>
List-Post: <mailto:wgchairs@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wgchairs>, <mailto:wgchairs-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:57:10 -0000

My feedback, for what it's worth...

My personal experience is that there's really two separate categories of "convince your boss":
a) Orgs/managers that are concerned about what's going on in the industry and
want to keep up and not miss getting in on the next big thing.   The current note
seems to be focused on this category, mostly worded about consumption and making connections.
b) Orgs/managers that believe (correctly or incorrectly) they are either already leading, or will lead, in the areas they care about, so sending people in person just to learn things is not seen as significant value, as opposed to just sending a speaker/author/chair to contribute. is.   The current note does not seem tailored to this category.

I've been in both types of org at different times in my life.

Secondly, in this world of economic downturn, travel may be harder to obtain
funding for, and much of the current note would apply to virtual attendance as well.
It doesn't really speak explicitly to the benefits of in-person as compared to virtual,
it is worded to compare in-person to no participation at all.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: WGChairs <wgchairs-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 8:21 AM
> To: Greg Wood <ghwood@staff.ietf.org>
> Cc: WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: Draft "Convince your boss" note for IETF participants
> 
> Do noy do this specifically for London, but change the text so it can persist
> across IETF meetings.
> 
> Suggest not to write in first person. Sounds a bit like 10 year old kid trying to
> persuade mom to go to some event.
> 
> Suggest to structure into sections "value of IETF meetings for organziation" vs.
> "value of IETF meetings for individuals".
> 
> Mention hackathon to get hooked into communities
> 
> Mention mentoring to get hooked up with possible like-minded people.
> 
> 
> Create (over time) example, short (2 paragraph) experience reports from
> individuals. For example add question about experience report to next
> questionaire you folks send around.
> 
> Collect more input for this text from questionaire via:
> "What information about the IETF would have made it more attractive for your
> boss (and you) to go to IETF in the first place" ?
> 
> And of course: "How should IETF improve to make it more useful for your
> organization and you" (which of course goes beyond the initial scope of this
> work, but threre should hopefully be a good amount of answers that
> ultimately help the goal.
> 
> Cheers
>     Toerless
> 
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 10:22:14AM -0400, Greg Wood wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > As an experiment, based on material some other technology conferences
> provide to (potential) participants, and at the suggestion received from an
> IETFer, we've created a draft "Convince Your Boss" note that might be used by
> someone seeking approval to attend an IETF meeting in-person:
> >
> >
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnotes.i
> etf.org%2Fietf-meeting-convince-your-
> boss&amp;data=05%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C84c247ce12ba4ea
> 5ffad08daa16527a4%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63
> 7999753087668654%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
> LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&a
> mp;sdata=%2BR8i2Db%2B9bqCJHQ4v9Q96q0pA%2BRCEc34xpTE9WH8h6g%3D
> &amp;reserved=0
> >
> > Any and all comments about whether this might be useful to you or
> participants in your groups, or suggestions about how it might be tuned to be
> more useful, would be most welcome - either on this list or directly to me.
> >
> > More broadly, it would be useful to know whether there is any specific
> information or material that would make it easier for IETF participants to
> participate in the IETF-not just meetings, but also (for example) devoting time
> to work in the IETF. Again, I'm happy to receive suggestions directly or on the
> list.
> >
> > Please let me know if I can provide more information or answer any
> questions.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> >
> > --
> > Greg Wood
> > IETF LLC
> > +1-703-625-3917
> 
> --
> ---
> tte@cs.fau.de