Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in our protocols?
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Thu, 20 August 2020 15:18 UTC
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:18:41 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Eliot Lear <lear=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, "wgchairs@ietf.org" <wgchairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in our protocols?
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Good points, Eliot Random thoughts: I always thought sendmail was likely the earliest reference example for "single" (dominant) implementation protocol back in the day (rfc822). Made popular of course by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm I wonder if there would be in IETF land ever be value in official "reference software" I remember this primarily from ISO/MPEG where it was/?is? common, e.g.: https://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c025029_ISO_IEC_TR_11172-5_1998(E)_Software_Simulation.zip I guess implicitly we have such reference software implicitly in our tooling chain, e.g.: tools written by IETF tooling team for e.g.: rfc7991 (RFC xml). Not sure if there is anything similar for "technical" area work product (RFCs). Cheers Toerless On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 04:45:28PM +0200, Eliot Lear wrote: > > > > On 20 Aug 2020, at 01:09, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > > > > Hiya, > > > > On 19/08/2020 23:51, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > >> There is different value in open and closed source implementations. But > >> bother are valuable. > > > > I maintain that, for implementers of RFCs, the existence of > > open-source code is valuable in a way that closed-source > > can never match. ISTM, that means OSS is inherently better > > for the purpose we're discussing here. > > > > When we speak in generalities, some finer points get lost. I can see value in open source in that people can take it and use it. And this is good to a point. One perversity is that if the standard is complex and there is source available, then that might be the ONLY implementation, or one of a very small number. This is precisely what happened in 2002 with SNMP and the ASN.1 interpreter bug that hit the entire industry, and it has since happened with openssl, although there are now a good number of libraries out there that cover its ground. > > If the point is to test interoperability, then OSS and closed source can be of similar value if someone is running a test harness of some sort through the closed source, and we see that fairly often as well in the form of bakeoffs and test portals. We do both OSS and closed now with MUD for instance. > > > >> There is as far as I can tell no benefit in the IETF actually storing > >> the source for these projects. > > > > I disagree. Finding the commit that matches the time at > > which the RFC was written can be non-trivial and will > > sometimes be useful/needed. > > > There is some value of a pointer. First, very little code only implements one standard. The code has a purpose in life that may extend beyond a POC. And this also means that the only thing that the IETF has to worry about is how to update a list of pointers, and not who gets to commit on active projects. And yeah, it might also keep the IPR just a bit simpler. > > Eliot -- --- tte@cs.fau.de
- An IETF repository for working code in our protoc… Vijay Gurbani
- RE: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Adrian Farrel
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Salz, Rich
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Tommy Pauly
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- RE: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Adrian Farrel
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Erik Kline
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Erik Kline
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Acee Lindem (acee)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Stephen Farrell
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Bron Gondwana
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Mark Nottingham
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Paul Wouters
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Eliot Lear
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Eliot Lear
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Salz, Rich
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Salz, Rich
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Melinda Shore
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Melinda Shore
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Pete Resnick
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: An IETF repository for working code in our pr… Michael Richardson
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Jane Coffin
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Michael Richardson
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani
- Re: [irsg] An IETF repository for working code in… Vijay Gurbani