IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Wish] WG recharter

Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> Wed, 03 May 2023 15:06 UTC

Return-Path: <sean@sn3rd.com>
X-Original-To: wish@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: wish@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 002A2C151B0B for <wish@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 May 2023 08:06:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zX6DNI_IHBFu for <wish@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 May 2023 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41F4EC14CF12 for <wish@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 May 2023 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-74fadabed0dso485941785a.0 for <wish@ietf.org>; Wed, 03 May 2023 08:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; t=1683126382; x=1685718382; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=nEHM7WyOFKbKic6AtDAxTLTzYPLrTmH1WPlOlnfVN5Y=; b=CSgxTgFL2NKqtO94MUclLlWfRGWNQCUwP+RSXBmCkgkegAw3Z0+19X9gnx3r60cWLI bcmZxTihqLhth5wpUzh60JimVpnGb1MChxRe+JKc+uoyV6XjcSs53yXtS3lv5LxpRClx V1TdW1+n7vLqoseI8PpvOJbMmryYZWkrAQL18=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683126382; x=1685718382; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nEHM7WyOFKbKic6AtDAxTLTzYPLrTmH1WPlOlnfVN5Y=; b=cAOPSMMdsmDOTiZqk5al+ETi2DYGc8Lmx7wn0z1LzU8eIJgMo3kRXhkGpW8Q3lIRbS tPEYteFHA5K6KBJ87NwRVNNr2UTBmdXsVNPD411gxiwo7W+6XjS39qqAX06An4NN6Jf3 G8n1/e4g+g2GvBY+MaAEkOi67LTD8jULloPYhgA+1RlchOOA6AFmBstgnpfL2d05RJqr 571tvI0NxHhdlKTHG685j/Q3vYmKywShpgscpXHNbRPcn2BxvMcMAanO9S6VMqMmec+2 oNj23Ip+wg/Z+XI94oTGpDZm2g2x2dqrFPLrh0xG/ppKYZDnt3on+Q4Xja5W3Zl3jiYW Do1w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDzS8ga4v93DT4YA18qeiVN3BEINApdaqJVZKH53rvi8RcyrshMO kYHMhOQ7TjanzMQ5J6TGUYbgtP/xHzLZDIHATtU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6WMZkOQLpei8kpgmtpaTGSESVGZfWOionmbUfcpZAajbM6TQs0jJfWHdvejLwdPnRYG8a8fA==
X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5f4a:0:b0:5ef:4565:a441 with SMTP id p10-20020ad45f4a000000b005ef4565a441mr11227681qvg.13.1683126382041; Wed, 03 May 2023 08:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-68-238-162-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [68.238.162.47]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h8-20020a0cfca8000000b005fdfde87bf3sm660952qvq.102.2023.05.03.08.06.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 May 2023 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\))
From: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
In-Reply-To: <A2955F44-85E3-48C9-BAF4-16448F46123F@pi.pe>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2023 11:06:20 -0400
Cc: WISH List <wish@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <0D834E12-3872-4798-B6C3-BC0E917B029E@sn3rd.com>
References: <CA+ag07YGJJ3OGbVWvTyx8azE8rPZxUTx+e1t-8QwDFc46+0jOg@mail.gmail.com> <F830F2A1-940D-40B2-9B37-BA8458E23430@pi.pe> <194B3D5F-D61E-496B-8B6A-74D5BAB78314@sn3rd.com> <CA+ag07aq6XHhGyCLwDFxXeb9vVMdXE5jE=NsvUJNhgr96Gxwpw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+ag07Y424OPOHvW8sGie4VwJfC1JKhE=bC-vsCFWnqc_pmU+Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAOW+2dsPfoNPCO-S8THzMPkT8_pPCyiprB598Od4YjH9nNyiKQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA+ag07Z7+dRqCEqye_rEwSZx4AkKUdeRbONbfDY2ZDQDAd5=kg@mail.gmail.com> <874jpejtvv.wl-jch@irif.fr> <CAOW+2duw_8U7+2K5Yesxcm1bRuCf4EGwp+8P+Y6f0tQfc1mobA@mail.gmail.com> <A2955F44-85E3-48C9-BAF4-16448F46123F@pi.pe>
To: Tim Panton <tim@pi.pe>, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>, Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/wish/mz-kQQKpfRrb2uQFfhXSN7XNqyM>
Subject: Re: [Wish] WG recharter
X-BeenThere: wish@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: WebRTC Ingest Signaling over HTTPS <wish.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/wish>, <mailto:wish-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/wish/>
List-Post: <mailto:wish@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:wish-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish>, <mailto:wish-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2023 15:06:27 -0000

Hey so this has been sitting around for a bit and just wanted to check on whether there has been any movement I might not be aware of.

Cheers,
spt

> On Apr 17, 2023, at 15:18, Tim Panton <tim@pi.pe> wrote:
> 
> I think there might well be need for a group to specify how to carry various things over DataChannels,
> (We’ve tunnelled webpages and websockets, lighting control signals,  identity proofs, subtitles, certificates, files, firmware updates etc)
>  but I don’t think WISH is the place to have that discussion.
> 
> @bernard Perhaps we should sketch something out for dispatch...
> 
> T.
> 
>> On 17 Apr 2023, at 19:06, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Juliusz said: 
>> 
>> "I think that's an important point.  In WHIP, Sergio has been careful to
>> stick to signalling, and defer all other protocol features to existing
>> standards.  That's what makes WHIP so eminently implementable."
>> 
>> [BA]  Except that there *are* "eminently implementable" standards, such as CMAF for containerization and MSE API (for rendering).  To prove the point, CMAF is supported in early MoQ drafts and browser clients demos supporting MSE have implemented "rewind".  If WebTransport were swapped out for RTCDataChannel, those same demos would run in Chromium. 
>> 
>> So the protocols have already been defined and implemented, and running code already exists.  In that sense, the remaining functionality is largely in the realm of "signaling" (e.g. how to request CMAF over RTCDataChannel, or how to request "rewind"). 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 10:33 AM Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
>> > Regarding the specific DRM and rewind functionalities, there is not a standard
>> > way of implementing them that we can reuse here.
>> 
>> I think that's an important point.  In WHIP, Sergio has been careful to
>> stick to signalling, and defer all other protocol features to existing
>> standards.  That's what makes WHIP so eminently implementable.
>> 
>> -- Juliusz
>> -- 
>> Wish mailing list
>> Wish@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish
>

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status