Re: [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] Unicode box-drawing for a new --table-borders value?

Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> Mon, 01 February 2021 14:38 UTC

Return-Path: <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
X-Original-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: xml2rfc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF903A11D4; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 06:38:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.306
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.306 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b=RKjZmGUM; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fifthhorseman.net header.b=KI69CEWV
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Os4o_8NBv0K; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 06:38:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from che.mayfirst.org (unknown [162.247.75.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B033D3A11D5; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 06:38:36 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019; t=1612190314; h=from : to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=+MDl/vPODzECNZovkFQMOMTeZcGhbK2Ch4PVuFM0acU=; b=RKjZmGUMgMOwLH/tgeORj7x434jt5DFVYIvGFZuJ4VtGq13p1Z6bIpRAbs1+0zjNvUhqa CiQuLyP49HLMBBTDw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=fifthhorseman.net; i=@fifthhorseman.net; q=dns/txt; s=2019rsa; t=1612190314; h=from : to : cc : subject : in-reply-to : references : date : message-id : mime-version : content-type : from; bh=+MDl/vPODzECNZovkFQMOMTeZcGhbK2Ch4PVuFM0acU=; b=KI69CEWVZyJ9giqHVH8dJ0mnvPwFYKORwW0ZUCb1S85DWNWJE63P5LZ17TTSu/GfzOtSJ WdESoGuVLVUxTUwr+OooJgKShhGc45On/o1QGqb6C2eieNhJcYK0iFXrw7iDyzbNlek+/2K sIE6LyxaVMftUVChc6OBM39TRbCIWu5067XryFFTfGRbA/IJbQXKQ7gPNL2pT0pQcq0aXt0 Bh66ukwfwhwD8h6i41aNIorpSq6WLUsAajXI+W5dKppEDquSRwtdaVSeXiRIdTLrapGDNaT RTUIsexSJnncPDE9LBw0lSOjp8mjslkE8lu/qigonAXggLmwRtA0gn7tFoGA==
Received: from fifthhorseman.net (lair.fifthhorseman.net [108.58.6.98]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B15C1F9A7; Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:38:34 -0500 (EST)
Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9958F20478; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:06:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
Cc: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org, xml2rfc@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <342339E7-A47C-4C51-8852-7FFBB6A8C750@eggert.org>
References: <8735yje4kt.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <342339E7-A47C-4C51-8852-7FFBB6A8C750@eggert.org>
Autocrypt: addr=dkg@fifthhorseman.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEX+i03xYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACA4xvL/xI5dHedcnkfViyq84doe8zFRid9jW7CC9XBiI0QQf FgoAgwWCX+i03wWJBZ+mAAMLCQcJEOCS6zpcoQ26RxQAAAAAAB4AIHNhbHRAbm90YXRpb25zLnNl cXVvaWEtcGdwLm9yZ/tr8E9NA10HvcAVlSxnox6z62KXCInWjZaiBIlgX6O5AxUKCAKbAQIeARYh BMKfigwB81402BaqXOCS6zpcoQ26AADZHQD/Zx9nc3N2kj13AUsKMr/7zekBtgfSIGB3hRCU74Su G44A/34Yp6IAkndewLxb1WdRSokycnaCVyrk0nb4imeAYyoPtBc8ZGtnQGZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4u bmV0PojRBBMWCgCDBYJf6LTfBYkFn6YAAwsJBwkQ4JLrOlyhDbpHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3Rh dGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnL0Gwxvypz2tu1IPG+yu1zPjkiZwpscsitwrVvzN3bbADFQoI ApsBAh4BFiEEwp+KDAHzXjTYFqpc4JLrOlyhDboAAPkXAP0Z29z7jW+YzLzPTQML4EQLMbkHOfU4 +s+ki81Czt0WqgD/SJ8RyrqDCtEP8+E4ZSR01ysKqh+MUAsTaJlzZjehiQ24MwRf6LTfFgkrBgEE AdpHDwEBB0DkKHOW2kmqfAK461+acQ49gc2Z6VoXMChRqobGP0ubb4kBiAQYFgoBOgWCX+i03wWJ BZ+mAAkQ4JLrOlyhDbpHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3Jnfvo+ nHoxDwaLaJD8XZuXiaqBNZtIGXIypF1udBBRoc0CmwICHgG+oAQZFgoAbwWCX+i03wkQPp1xc3He VlxHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnaheiqE7Pfi3Atb3GGTw+ jFcBGOaobgzEJrhEuFpXREEWIQQttUkcnfDcj0MoY88+nXFzcd5WXAAAvrsBAIJ5sBg8Udocv25N stN/zWOiYpnjjvOjVMLH4fV3pWE1AP9T6hzHz7hRnAA8d01vqoxOlQ3O6cb/kFYAjqx3oMXSBhYh BMKfigwB81402BaqXOCS6zpcoQ26AADX7gD/b83VObe14xrNP8xcltRrBZF5OE1rQSPkMNy+eWpk eCwA/1hxiS8ZxL5/elNjXiWuHXEvUGnRoVj745Vl48sZPVYMuDgEX+i03xIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEH QIGex1WZbH6xhUBve5mblScGYU+Y8QJOomXH+rr5tMsMAwEICYjJBBgWCgB7BYJf6LTfBYkFn6YA CRDgkus6XKENukcUAAAAAAAeACBzYWx0QG5vdGF0aW9ucy5zZXF1b2lhLXBncC5vcmcEAx9vTD3b J0SXkhvcRcCr6uIDJwic3KFKxkH1m4QW0QKbDAIeARYhBMKfigwB81402BaqXOCS6zpcoQ26AAAX mwD8CWmukxwskU82RZLMk5fm1wCgMB5z8dA50KLw3rgsCykBAKg1w/Y7XpBS3SlXEegIg1K1e6dR fRxL7Z37WZXoH8AH
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:06:38 -0500
Message-ID: <87lfcacstt.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xml2rfc/1NGAPSZeWOW8VNzb9b8_kCIi6bs>
Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] Unicode box-drawing for a new --table-borders value?
X-BeenThere: xml2rfc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <xml2rfc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/xml2rfc>, <mailto:xml2rfc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/xml2rfc/>
List-Post: <mailto:xml2rfc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:xml2rfc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc>, <mailto:xml2rfc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2021 14:38:38 -0000

On Sat 2021-01-30 07:22:43 +0200, Lars Eggert wrote:
> I think that would be excellent, but AFAIK Unicode can (still) only be
> used in contact names (see the recent "Unicode in xml2rfc v3" thread
> over on rfc-interest@). I really hope we can just get to an agreement
> to allow Unicode anywhere in the document.

whoops, i've been using unicode (in particular, the box-drawing
characters and a few fancy arrows) to pretty good effect (imho) in
several I-Ds already, for example:

    https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dkg-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-00.html#name-multilayer-cryptographic-en

That document would be much harder to read and understand (and probably
much longer) without the compact representations of MIME message
structure.

Reading the thread you reference suggests that those characters are
probably acceptable within an "artwork" or verbatim block, but maybe not
in the regular text.

That would mean unicode *can* show up in other places in the .txt
versions of the RFC, which is the only context where --table-borders
really matters, afaict.  So it seems like the constraints on unicode in
the normal text shouldn't be any formal problem with the .txt
translation.  Does that seem like a plausible analysis?

Hopefully this change would just be a "simple matter of programming" in
xml2rfc itself, and not some sort of policy quagmire.

  --dkg