Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics-06
"Huangyihong (Rachel)" <rachel.huang@huawei.com> Thu, 02 November 2017 10:00 UTC
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From: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" <rachel.huang@huawei.com>
To: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>, Varun Singh <varun@callstats.io>
CC: "draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics.all@ietf.org>, xrblock <xrblock@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics-06
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Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 10:00:33 +0000
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Subject: Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics-06
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Hi Ben, After discussion among the co-authors, we reached the consensus to make it informational. W3C stats API still refers to it, but in an informational way. We'll submit a new version to address your comments. BR, Rachel > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com] > Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 5:52 AM > To: Varun Singh > Cc: draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics.all@ietf.org; xrblock > Subject: Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of > draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics-06 > > > > > On Oct 8, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Varun Singh <varun@callstats.io> wrote: > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > See inline. > > > >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:28 AM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> > wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> This is my AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcweb-rtcp-xr-metrics-06. I > would like to resolve at least the substantive comments prior to IETF LC. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Ben. > >> ————————— > >> > >> Substantive: > >> > >> - General: If I understand correctly, this document lists and describes XR > metrics that a WebRTC application might choose to negotiate and expose via > the WebRTC API. It does not define any new XR metrics. That brings up two > questions: > >> > >> 1) Why is this specific to WebRTC? For the most parts, all the arguments > here would apply to any sort of RTP endpoint. > >> > > > > This draft was created initially as an input to RTCWEB and later as an > > input to WebRTC Statistics API. Hence the use of WebRTC in the title > > and the introduction. We could add to the introduction: "In general, > > the metrics listed in this document can be exposed by any real-time > > communications endpoint." Or something along those lines > > > > > >> 2) Why is this standards track? This sort of material is typically informational, > or occasionally a BCP. There are a small number of 2119 keywords, but I’m not > sure they are needed or appropriate. (Specifics below.) My initial instinct is that > this should be informational. > >> > > > > The reason until recently (perhaps still exist) is that this was an > > input from the IETF to W3C, I am not sure if there was an official > > liaison statements sent to them? nonetheless, the W3C Statistics API > > document needed a specification needed (a specification in any > > standards body would suffice) for metrics to be accepted into the W3C > > document. > > To make sure I understand:That API document will reference this one? Do they > require that specification to be standards track? > > Was there discussion in xrblock about standards track verses BCP? > > > > > In practice, it helped that I was the co-author of both the IETF and > > W3C document and hence was able to make the case for the metrics in > > W3C. > > Is that case already made? That is, does the need for a published RFC still > exist? > > > > >> - General: This needs an IANA considerations section, even if it just contains > the statement to the effect of “This document makes no requests for IANA”. > >> > >> - 1, last paragraph: “ The document also creates a registry containing > identifiers from the metrics reported in the RTCP Sender, Receiver, and > Extended Reports.” > > > > This should be removed. Thanks for pointing this out. > > > >> > >> It doesn’t actually do that. I understand from the shepherd’s report that > this was intentionally removed. > >> > >> — “All identifiers proposed in this document are RECOMMENDED to be > >> implemented by an endpoint. An endpoint MAY choose not to expose an > >> identifier if it does not implement the corresponding RTCP Report. “ > >> > >> Does the “RECOMMENDED” apply to all endpoints or just WebRTC > >> endpoints? If the latter, doesn’t that requirement belong (or need to > >> update) some requirement from an RTCWEB (maybe rtp-usage) document, > >> or even the API itself? (I suspect that this draft does not have > >> standing to state this normatively.) What is meant by “MAY choose not > >> to expose”. Is that talking about via the WebRTC API? If so, isn’t > >> that up to the API definition? (That is, it shouldn’t be normative > >> here.) > >> > > > > It should be applicable to any endpoint, although it is pertinent or > > timely for the WebRTC endpoint to expose these. > > The purpose of the statement was to highlight that if the > > middlebox/endpoint sends RTCP XRs then it should expose the data > > available via the API. > > > > I am open to changing to a non-normative lower case guidance if that > > would be more suitable, although if this document is making > > recommendations to the W3C document -- wouldn't we keep the uppercase? > > In general, 2119 keywords are better used when we are talking about > interoperability issues in a protocol. I suggest switching to lower case unless > there’s some reason to believe the W3C won’t pay attention unless it’s in > all-caps. (I don’t think that’s usually the case.) > > > > > co-authors, what do you think? > > > >> -2: If this document keeps the normative keywords, please use the > >> updated boilerplate from RFC 8174. (I note that there are at least > >> some uncapitalized “may”s that do not seem normative.) > >> > > > > depending on the above, we should fix these to uppercase. > > > >> - 5.2.2, last paragraph: “The following metrics can also be considered…” > >> Be considered by whom? Implementors? API designers? > >> > > > > Both. > > > >> - 6, first paragraph: “In practice the application MUST be able to query the > statistic identifiers on both an incoming (remote) and outgoing (local) media > stream.” > >> What does the MUST requirement apply to? The WebRTC API? This seems > more like a statement of fact that “ the application needs to be able…” > >> > > > > correct, "needs to" is better. > > > >> -8: "Therefore encryption procedures, such as the ones suggested for a > Secure RTCP (SRTCP), need to be used.” > >> The text should describe the reasons encryption is needed. Also, is this a > new normative requirement, or a restatement of an existing requirement? > >> > > > > I believe it is restatement alluding to the guidance in the > > corresponding RTCP XRs. > > > >> Editorial: > >> > >> -1, paragraph 1:" If sufficient information (metrics or statistics) > >> are provided to the applications, it can attempt to improve the media > >> quality. “ > >> > >> s / “are provided” / “is provided” > >> s / applications / application > >> > >> -3, 2nd paragraph: It would help to clarify that the references to section 5 > and 6 are to this document, not RFC 3611. > >> > >> — 3rd paragraph: "At the moment…” > >> Please clarify that is at the time of writing (not reading) > >> > >> -5, 2nd paragraph: “ Application impact metrics mainly collect the > >> information in the viewpoint of application … “ s / in / from Also, > >> please expand “FEC” on first mention. > >> > >> - 5.1.1, first paragraph: “ Duplicate packets may be a result of network > delays, which causes the sender to retransmit the original packets.” > >> s/ :delays, which” / “delays that” > >> > >> — last paragraph: "For those RTCWEB services with jitter buffer…” > >> s/buffer/buffers > >> > >> - 5.1.2, first paragraph: > >> First sentence is a comma splice. > >> — “some transitory nature of the impairments” > >> Should this say “the transitory nature of some impairments”? > >> — “ Distributed burst provides a higher subjective quality” > >> “Burst distribution …”? > >> — Last paragraph: “ Hence, if WebRTC application” > >> Missing article (or should application be plural?) > >> > >> - 5.2.1, title: Should “Discard” be “Discarded”? > >> > >> -7: Please clarify that this is at the time of this writing. > >> > > > > Thanks for your feedback and suggestions, we will fix these. > > > > Regards, > > Varun > > > > > > -- > > Founder, CEO, callstats.io > > http://www.callstats.io > > > > Interested in networking, media quality, and diagnostics. > > We are hiring!: www.callstats.io/jobs/
- [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock-rtc… Ben Campbell
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Varun Singh
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Huangyihong (Rachel)
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Ben Campbell
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Ben Campbell
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Huangyihong (Rachel)
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Roni Even
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Dan Romascanu
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Ben Campbell
- Re: [xrblock] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-xrblock… Varun Singh