Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt
Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> Thu, 20 December 2012 10:50 UTC
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Glen Zorn <glenzorn@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 18:49:09 +0800
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Subject: Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Zorn" <glenzorn@gmail.com> To: "Qin Wu" <bill.wu@huawei.com> Cc: "xrblock" <xrblock@ietf.org> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02.txt > On 12/20/2012 03:48 PM, Qin Wu wrote: >>> On 12/17/2012 09:04 AM, Qin Wu wrote: >>> ... >>> >>>>>>> *Section 3.2* The description of the "jitter buffer nominal delay" >>>>>>> says that "It is calculated based on the time for packets spent in >>>>>>> the jitter buffer." How is it calculated? >>>>>> [Qin]:It will be calculate based on the difference between the time >>>>>> when the packet enter into the jitter buffer and the time when the >>>>>> packet come out from jitter buffer. It is mostly up to specific >>>>>> implementation and doesn't need to spell out. >>>>> So it's OK if two different implementations produce different numbers >>>>> from the same data? That doesn't seem very interoperable, somehow. >>>>> Maybe one problem I'm having with this is that the way the word >>>>> "nominal" is used doesn't map to any definition of which I'm aware. >>>> [Qin]: Suppose a lot of packets are receieved in one measurement interval. Some packets arrive very earlier, some packets arrive very late. >>>> some packets arrive extractly on time. Nominal packet are referred to the packet that arrives exactly on time >>>> Since they have the same reference measurement point, usually they will get the same result. >>> Usually? >> [Qin]: one update (-05) was done to clear this ambiguity based on recent comment >> from Kevin who has the similar concern as you. The change is >> replace "It is calculated based on the time for packets spent in the jitter buffer." >> with "It is calculated based on the difference between the receipt time and the >> playout time for the packet that arrives exactly on time." >> >> With this justification text, you will see different implementations will not produce different numbers. > Doesn't that depend upon what the application defines "exactly on time" > to mean? [Qin]: I think you can rely on the synchronization metadata at the RTP layer or TS layer (e.g., DTS/PTS ) to know whether the packet arrives on time. >> >>>> For the definition, you also can see the metric "jitter buffer nominal delay " defined in RFC3611,section4.7.7. >>> Thanks for the reference, but it raises more questions than it answers >>> for me. The draft appears to duplicate most, but not all, of the >>> fields related to jitter buffers included in the VoIP Metrics Report >>> Block defined in RFC 3611, but says nothing about its relationship to >>> that RFC (i.e., if it obsoletes or updates RFC 3611). So as it stands >>> it looks like if "jitter buffer absolute maximum delay" is to be >>> reported the VoIP Metrics Report Block needs to be sent anyway. I'm >>> assuming that this is intentional but I don't recall any discussion of >>> it on the list. Was I just not paying attention? Is there a plan to >>> obsolete RFC 3611 at some point in the future (say, when all the XR >>> blocks defined therein have been sliced & diced into the currently >>> fashionable tiny hunks)? It's not in the charter... >> [Qin]: The metric has been defined in RFC3611. However the block format to carry >> this metric need to be re-specified so that we can make such metric block can be >> applicable to more other RTP applications rather than VOIP application since VOIP metric >> report doesn't look reusable for video application. I don't think RFC3611 needs to be obseleted. > > So this block is for use with any real-time application _except_ VOIP?' [Qin]: Not necessary, it can apply to VOIP since the block is defined in the generic way. >>>>> ... >>>>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > xrblock mailing list > xrblock@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xrblock
- [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-jb-02… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Claire Bi(jiayu)
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Colin Perkins
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Colin Perkins
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Colin Perkins
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Varun Singh
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Claire Bi(jiayu)
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Glen Zorn
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Kevin Gross
- Re: [xrblock] WGLC - draft-ietf-xrblock-rtcp-xr-j… Qin Wu