Re: [yang-doctors] reference in import statement

Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> Thu, 22 February 2018 18:36 UTC

Return-Path: <bclaise@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEED126B6E for <yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:36:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.53
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qmz2cG7BCSMN for <yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:36:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ED4B12D957 for <yang-doctors@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:36:47 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4766; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1519324607; x=1520534207; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CiRS0D36UMrfx5NWDy1uom7BF0jIuiicxDk6iOTxBF8=; b=HmoKIuGJzHbw9Bz19pFtWjmGXFYz1kTIAPnFun/6IJGXnHiE6ttTnPMJ WtnFDdubziIi6RFqBJXjjalPXG9GrQzQouBG/XhFbOTKP3+cwHK+MnFQS Nc0VPvWJaPHwVDABEQ/OtU7ll5TdZR4e3ApBIeiBz3ShY91pYigZ3d8Mu 0=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BzAgClDI9a/4oNJK1ZAxkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGDT2ZwKINomCGBUDKBFogBjk0UggIKGAuFEQKCLlYWAQIBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECayiFJAEBBAEBIQ8BBTYEBw4CCw4CCAICJgICGwYGMAYBDAYCAQEVAolwA?= =?us-ascii?q?xUQqyCCJ4UAgjkNgTKCFwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFBYEKhAqCJ4F?= =?us-ascii?q?XgWcpgwWCbEQBAYE5WSaCUIJFIAWTapAgNQmRA4ULgiCKGSaHZY5UgTmIHYE8J?= =?us-ascii?q?gMvgVEzGggbFTqCQ4UUIzeNLwEBAQ?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.47,378,1515456000"; d="scan'208";a="74639982"
Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Feb 2018 18:36:46 +0000
Received: from [10.82.171.153] ([10.82.171.153]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1MIakgZ026857; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:36:46 GMT
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org
References: <20180215083130.uagwwr5huxgs5qst@elstar.local> <9783C687-6D5B-4FF4-BFB6-3D9FA62DB249@gmail.com> <20180222.085323.144940543114040096.mbj@tail-f.com> <A37B4457-245F-4ACA-957E-94206F08C491@gmail.com>
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <14396a94-e79f-1c94-564f-d1a9ebf87aec@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:36:46 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <A37B4457-245F-4ACA-957E-94206F08C491@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/yang-doctors/3Z1ClNQq0UQCvuG5e9xO7RHOqgw>
Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] reference in import statement
X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate <yang-doctors.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/yang-doctors>, <mailto:yang-doctors-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/yang-doctors/>
List-Post: <mailto:yang-doctors@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:yang-doctors-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors>, <mailto:yang-doctors-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 18:36:51 -0000

Dear all,

I think that keeping the reference is good thing. Btw, this is not 
specifically a reference to where the YANG module is, but mainly where 
the supporting document is.
I think that having the reference pointing to where the extracted YANG 
module is (read the IANA registry, as Mahesh suggested) misses the 
pointer to the supporting document.
I think that this problem is maybe not that confusing. Either people 
find the YANG module from the RFCs and they would see RFCbis links, or 
people find YANG module from a repo (IANA, yangcatalog.org, github) and 
they would directly discover the latest revision. So adding "(at the 
time of this writing)" doesn't hurt but doesn't add a lot of value. 
Actually, this is typically the type of rules that hurts if not done 
consistently. Ex: 90% of YANG modules contains "(at the time of this 
writing)", while the complementary 10% doesn't. What should I conclude 
for the 10%? Something special or simply an oversight?

Regards, Benoit (as a contributor)
> Hi Martin,
>
>
>> On Feb 21, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree that this is grounds for confusion.
>>>
>>> My preference would be that we NOT have a reference statement for
>>> import, or a comment for that matter, unless the module is doing
>>> import by revision. The text of the document is already required to
>>> have normative references to whatever the module imports.
>> I think this would be quite unfortunate, even though I agree that it
>> might be confusing to have the reference.  The problem with having
>> the reference only in the main body is that modules are typically
>> extracted from the RFCs and live their own life.  So all you have is a
>> list of various imported modules, and it is not obvious where to find
>> them.
> Wasn’t the idea to not have the relationship between RFC number and a YANG model because of some of these very reasons, and move to IANA maintaining a copy of all version of the YANG models? If so, would it not make sense to refer to the IANA registry, rather than point to the RFC?
>
>> We added the "reference" statement to "import" for this very reason in
>> YANG 1.1.
>>
>> So maybe the best solution is the one suggested by Juergen initially:
>>
>>     reference "RFC 6991: Common YANG Data Types
>>                  (at the time of this writing)";
>>
>>
>> Or maybe we declare that in fact this is not confusing (or at least it
>> is not a major issue) - people are aware of the fact that documents
>> evolve, and that there might be a more recent version available.
>>
>>
>> /martin
>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 2018, at 12:31 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder
>>>> <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have just seen this pattern
>>>>
>>>>   import ietf-inet-types {
>>>>     prefix "inet";
>>>>     reference "RFC 6991";
>>>>   }
>>>>
>>>> and I wonder how people understand this. From the way this import
>>>> works, any (newer) version of ietf-inet-types is OK to use to resolve
>>>> the import but I could see that this statement makes people believe
>>>> they have to use the version of ietf-inet-types contained in RFC 6991
>>>> (but then this should have been import by revision). I know that we
>>>> had a common practice to have comments before this was possible, like
>>>>
>>>>   import ietf-inet-types {             // RFC 6991
>>>>     prefix "inet";
>>>>   }
>>>>
>>>> but then this was a comment, now the RFC numbers becomes part of the
>>>> definition. Should we be concerned about this? Or should we suggest
>>>> to be more clear about this, e.g.:
>>>>
>>>>   import ietf-inet-types {
>>>>     prefix "inet";
>>>>     reference "RFC 6991 (at the time of this writing)";
>>>>   }
>>>>
>>>> /js
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
>>>> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> yang-doctors mailing list
>>>> yang-doctors@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors
>>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> yang-doctors mailing list
>>> yang-doctors@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors
>>>
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> yang-doctors mailing list
> yang-doctors@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors