Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and friends
Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> Thu, 15 March 2018 07:33 UTC
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 08:33:39 +0100
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From: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
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Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and friends
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Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > > > > Fine, but what about the examples that are contained within a draft that > > defines the YANG module. Do we expect YANG Doctors to review the examples > > or not? What I'm looking for is a definition of what all a YANG Doctor > > looks at, if anything less than the entire draft. Can the YANG Doctor > > function be automated, or is function more than validators could ever hope > > to do? > > > > K. > > > > ===== > > > > As YANG secretary I have an issue with reviewing draft which do not > > include YANG modules. > > > > > A YANG module has its review criteria defined in YANG RFCs. > > > However examples may be manifold and imperfect. > > > > If the group decides to review such documents the review criteria needs to > > be defined first. > > > > > > IMO the scope needs to be fairly tight, and needs to focus on the aspects > that > no tool could ever hope to automate: > > Review YANG module(s) from 3 POVs > A) standard POV -- consistent with all related standards; reusing > existing YANG correctly? > B) server POV -- it is clear to server implementors what to do > C) client POV -- it is clear to client developers what to do, and > what a server is expected to do > > Since normative text is spread all over the place, determining if (2) is > correct > can be a massive undertaking. > > So I will focus only only these aspects during my reviews. > If you want to check if the indentation is exactly right or > every single reference is fully named, then an automated tool should do > that. I agree. But there are two issues right now: (i) who checks that these tools have been run or who runs the tools; and (ii) such tools currently do not do a 100% good job. Until we have these tools 100% automated, I think it is part of the YD review to check these things. For example, to check indentation of YANG itself you can do: $ pyang -f yang --keep-comments <IN> > <OUT> $ diff <IN> <OUT> ... and manually check the result (it won't be empty). The reference checker "should" be built into idnits, or similar. /martin > > > Cheers, > > Mehmet > > > > Andy > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:22 AM > > > To: bclaise@cisco.com > > > Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net; mersue@gmail.com; yang-doctors@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and friends > > > > > > Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > Why not review the document, even if there is no YANG module, and see > > > > if there is something to pay attention to? The examples, for example, > > > > are important to review and validate. > > > > > > Yes, but is this something for the YANG doctors in general? > > > > > > In this particular case, it doesn't really matter, since most likely > > several YDs > > > will review the document anyway. > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, B. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that the YD page has been restored, here's what it says: > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > > > > > > What to look for during a review > > > > > > > > > > The most important item is to give the AD a sense of how important > > > > > it is that they pay attention to the document. > > > > > For YANG reviews the YANG Doctors will apply the RFC6087bis document > > > > > on the Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG Data Model > > > > > Documents > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dnetmod- > > 2Drfc6087bis_&d=DwIFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r= > > 9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=9NbPiPD-CVHGtQCZXZJQf- > > eRBVyomnwn2DvqhWonaBc&s=a93P1wWzQy2YYDl9KQTai1EbHdIRYwH_EwYv-TcUYjU&e=. > > The > > > > > YANG language syntax and semantics should be analyzed. The > > > > > compliance with Network Management Datastore Architecture should to > > > > > be ensured (see also NMDA guidelines). > > > > > > > > > > Review Information > > > > > > > > > > Under some circumstances, the YANG doctors might discover open > > > > > issues or provide feedback worth documenting for the larger > > > > > community. While the NETMOD WG still work on RFC6087bis, updating > > > > > this document is preferred. If the topic is not appropriate for the > > > > > RFC6087bis or if RFC6087bis has already been published, then this > > > > > must be documented on the YANG questions/answers WIKI > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__trac. > > ietf.org_trac_ops_wiki_YANGDoctorsFAQ&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r= > > 9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=9NbPiPD-CVHGtQCZXZJQf- > > eRBVyomnwn2DvqhWonaBc&s=s7Yh35PaMXizxNvkc0_aLaDV1FDcJgoj2_IuPiEoRlc&e=. > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > > > > > > The scope of the YD's review is unclear. > > > > > > > > > > K. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== original message ===== > > > > > > > > > > One question coming up in my mind is against which criteria should > > > > > such drafts be reviewed. > > > > > A YANG module has its review criteria defined in YANG RFCs. > > > > > However examples may be manifold and imperfect. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Mehmet > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 6:09 PM > > > > >> To: Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com>; 'Martin Bjorklund' > > > <mbj@tail- > > > > >> f.com> > > > > >> Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org > > > > >> Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and friends > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> I did not start review for netconf-event-notifications-08. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Netconf co-chairs: Please clarify whether a review is required. > > > > >> > > > > >> What's in a YANG Doctor review? Is it just syntax, or semantics > > too? > > > > >> If it includes semantics, then does that then entail needing to > > > > >> read the draft text as well, to determine if the YANG module > > > > >> expresses the correct semantics or find that the draft text is > > > > >> wrong? Would it also extend to reviewing the examples in the > > > > >> draft, to further ensure that the semantics are understood > > > > >> correctly or, possibly, that there is an error in the example? > > > > >> > > > > >> Yes, I am aware that netconf-event-notifications does not define a > > > > >> YANG module, but it does have examples that for the YANG modules in > > > > >> the > > > > >> yang- > > > > >> push and subscriber-notifications drafts. In that sense, I'm > > > > >> wondering if they need to be reviewed, or do we expect the YD > > > > >> reviewers of those other two drafts to look at this draft already? > > > > >> > > > > >> FWIW, I not talking about what might be found via validation. I've > > > > >> already asked the authors to post a script that validates the 14 > > > > >> examples in this draft... > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> K. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > yang-doctors mailing list > > > > > yang-doctors@ietf.org > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www. > > ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_yang-2Ddoctors&d=DwIFaQ&c= > > HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r= > > 9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=9NbPiPD-CVHGtQCZXZJQf- > > eRBVyomnwn2DvqhWonaBc&s=3pky8v7zSfdi3HNvorvvT3Y60l7ZxfBUm6K8ulTV3r8&e= > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yang-doctors mailing list > > yang-doctors@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > >
- [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and friends Kent Watsen
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Kent Watsen
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Kent Watsen
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Kent Watsen
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Benoit Claise
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Kent Watsen
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Andy Bierman
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Benoit Claise
- Re: [yang-doctors] YD review and yang-push and fr… Christian Hopps