Re: [arch-d] IAB Adoption of draft-nottingham-for-the-users-09

Good points!  My comment is about defining end users as non technical. At
what level of knowledge does one become technical or non technical? I would
say that ‘for the users’ should mean everyone who uses network services
that they buy from someone else. As a woman I am sensitive to the
paternalism of the ‘non technical’ definition.

And as Dirk says ‘what is good for fhe user’ is very context dependent, I
am also chairing an IEEE group on face recognition standardization and the
‘good for the user’ there is highly debated wether you are law enforcement
or citizens activists. I think the draft does not address these nuances.

mjm

Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D.
Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory
mariejose@mjmontpetit.com
mariejo@mit.edu

On July 31, 2019 at 5:55:51 AM, Dirk Kutscher (ietf@dkutscher.net) wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> my comments on the draft:
>
> I welcome the effort and the intention to provide some guidelines to
> prevent harm in the technical decision making. Also, the draft has much
> improved compared to earlier versions.
>
> My fundamental concern is that the “prioritizing the end user” axiom does
> not automatically lead you to good design decisions — because there are
> different stake-holders, interests etc that will just use the “end user”
> argument:
>
>    - ISP: it’s in the interest of the user to have a well-managed network…
>    - government: users are citizens — we need to protect them from the
>    terrorists
>    - surveillance platform: the user prefers personalized ads over spam
>    - addictive social media: the user wants high-speed, confidential
>    access to our content
>
> That means, the “what is good for the end user” argument will have to be
> fought out for almost every design decision. Perhaps this is what the draft
> should say?
>
> Dirk
>
> On 22 Jul 2019, at 16:09, IAB Executive Administrative Manager wrote:
>
> The IAB will discuss adoption of draft-nottingham-for-the-users-09 at
> its meeting on 2019-08-07.
>
> The draft can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nottingham-for-the-users/
>
> The agenda for the meeting will be posted 48 hours ahead of the meeting
> here: https://www.iab.org/wiki/index.php/Agenda
>
> Feedback about this draft can be sent in response to this mail on
> architecture-discuss@ietf.org, or to the IAB directly at iab@iab.org.
>
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