Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-carddav-02
Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Mon, 16 July 2007 15:01 UTC
Return-Path: <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
X-Original-To: ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org
Delivered-To: ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org
Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BEAF7FA50 for <ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:01:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5045214220D for <ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org
X-Spam-Score: -1.454
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.454 tagged_above=-50 required=4 tests=[AWL=0.947, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JDz7kb36207A for <ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail2536.carrierzone.com (mail2536.carrierzone.com [64.29.147.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8C614220A for <ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authenticated-User: master.tencoassemblies.com
Received: from TENCOSERVER.TencoAssembliesInc.local (static-68-162-87-75.phil.east.verizon.net [68.162.87.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail2536.carrierzone.com (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6GF0DW0028993; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:00:14 GMT
Received: from TENCOSERVER.TencoAssembliesInc.local ([10.0.0.2]) by TENCOSERVER.TencoAssembliesInc.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:00:13 -0400
Received: by TENCOSERVER.TencoAssembliesInc.local (Microsoft Connector for POP3 Mailboxes 5.00.2195) with SMTP (Global POP3 Download) id MSG07162007-110012-11730.MMD@TencoAssembliesInc.local; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:00:12 -0400
X-From_: w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org Mon Jul 16 14:58:40 2007
X-Envelope-From: w3c-dist-auth-request@frink.w3.org
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.16]) by mail2546.carrierzone.com (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6GEwdot028789 for <JTentilucci@tencoassemblies.com>; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:58:40 GMT
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1IAS0x-0003RC-6M for w3c-dist-auth-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:31 +0000
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IAS0v-0003Ps-US for w3c-dist-auth@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:29 +0000
Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by lisa.w3.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <julian.reschke@gmx.de>) id 1IAS0q-0002Ou-0e for w3c-dist-auth@w3.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:29 +0000
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Jul 2007 14:57:16 -0000
Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.87]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp026) with SMTP; 16 Jul 2007 16:57:16 +0200
X-Authenticated: #1915285
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19yipxDm6By2i+9o03EcXWmFpqjoB+bfEUsvk1cjt Aio/+eDQm4sdz3
Message-ID: <469B8745.7030805@gmx.de>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:57:09 +0200
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Cyrus Daboo <cyrus@daboo.name>
References: <4699F52B.10101@gmx.de> <DA70918551A4706E579F3829@caldav.corp.apple.com>
In-Reply-To: <DA70918551A4706E579F3829@caldav.corp.apple.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Received-SPF: pass
X-SPF-Guess: pass
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1IAS0q-0002Ou-0e c931b356366e4f11ca4d916c2af5de1a
X-Original-To: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
Subject: Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-carddav-02
X-Archived-At: http://www.w3.org/mid/469B8745.7030805@gmx.de
Resent-From: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org> archive/latest/12721
X-Loop: w3c-dist-auth@w3.org
Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
Resent-Sender: w3c-dist-auth-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Message-Id: <E1IAS0x-0003RC-6M@frink.w3.org>
Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:31 +0000
X-Antivirus: Scanned by F-Prot Antivirus (http://www.f-prot.com)
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jul 2007 15:00:13.0204 (UTC) FILETIME=[0307DD40:01C7C7BA]
Cc: WebDAV <w3c-dist-auth@w3.org>, ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org
X-BeenThere: ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: ietf-carddav.osafoundation.org
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ietf-carddav>, <mailto:ietf-carddav-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-carddav>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-carddav@osafoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-carddav-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ietf-carddav>, <mailto:ietf-carddav-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:01:22 -0000
Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Julian, > Thanks for your detailed review. And thanks for the feedback! > Note that it was actually RFC3253 that let the cat out of the bag (so to > speak) wrt new methods for creating collections (MKWORKSPACE and > MKACTIVITY). In CalDAV We chose to be consistent with that approach by > having MKCALENDAR, and hence CardDAV has MKADDRESSBOOK. Understood. I think there's a small difference in that RFC3253 defined a generic framework for versioning -- which may be applicable to many use cases -- where Ca*DAV use it for a very specific business case. I'll admit that the border between "generic" and these ones is fuzzy, though. > However, I do agree that this is not an ideal state of affairs. If there > is consensus in the WebDAV community to do so, I agree that we should > write up a formal extension to MKCOL that would cover all the other > MKxxx's behaviors. However, I do not believe that belongs in CardDAV, it > should be a separate extension that CardDAV can itself leverage. I would > be happy to put a spec together on that (extracting the behaviors from > the existing specs). I think that would be great. I think all we need is a request body (XML + mime type) that will allow to specify a set of WebDAV properties, including the resource type. > ... >> Use of Reports >> >> Everytime a new REPORT is introduced, a new set of information is made >> hard to cache. In some cases that may be harmless (such as when it's >> something like a query, line in some RFC3744 reports). >> >> However, defining a "multiget" really seems to be a bad idea, and now >> there are even two of those! Please take this out until it can be shown >> that just sending a bunch of GET requests (which can take advantage of >> caching) is not sufficient. > > CalDAV has proved (to me at least) that multiget is a big win for both > server and client. Perhaps other implementers can also comment. > > Its a win for several reasons including: > > 1) Cutting down on roundtrips. We did have discussion about why > pipelining is not reliable in the PATCH extension thread on the HTTP > list, though in this case we are only dealing with GETs. Yes, so I don't think that these concerns apply. > 2) multiget allows both the data and properties to be returned in one > go: i.e. it is the equivalent of a GET and a PROPFIND. Understood, but this is related to the issue below: if the contents of the calendar/address resource would be exposed as *true* WebDAV property, a single PROPFIND would be sufficient. > ... >> Property model >> >> The specs avoid exposing the content of their data objects as WebDAV >> properties. This leads to lots of workarounds, such as introducing >> "pseudo-properties" containing the actual content >> (CARDDAV:addressbook-data), and abuse of DAV:prop for something that is >> not a WebDAV property. Don't do this, it requires generic WebDAV servers >> to use lots of special cases. (WebDAV SEARCH started with pseudo >> properties but got successfully rid of them, so this can be done). > > Well CardDAV and CalDAV are special cases of a generic WebDAV server. So > I don't see this as being a big issue. There are reasons for doing > things the way they are and I will address those in more detail in a > follow up to your more detailed review posted to the CardDAV list. > ... Looking forward to that. As this is a general WebDAV design question, maybe we should keep it over on this list... Best regards, Julian
- [Ietf-carddav] presentations today and other "wg"… Marc Blanchet
- [Ietf-carddav] charter comments Marc Blanchet
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Wilfredo Sánchez Vega
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Wilfredo Sánchez Vega
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-cardda… Cyrus Daboo
- [Ietf-carddav] Comments on draft-daboo-carddav-02 Julian Reschke