Re: [Detnet] Resolving the remaining Use Cases Draft Comments - Cellular Radio and Industrial M2M

["Maik Seewald (maseewal)" <[e-mail]>]

János,

There is the traffic type isochronous with no tolerance to packet loss.
The IIC contribution recently presented mandates this as well.

Cheers,
Maik

From: Janos Farkas <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Wednesday, 19. December 2018 at 17:12
To: "Grossman, Ethan A." <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Cisco Employee <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Balázs Varga A <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Suresh Krishnan <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: Resolving the remaining Use Cases Draft Comments - Cellular Radio and Industrial M2M

I just tried to resolve the concern around burstless.

Actually, the numbers may not be right.

Checking IEC/IEEE 60802 contributions
https://1.ieee802.org/tsn/iec-ieee-60802-tsn-profile-for-industrial-automation/

Use Cases: http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/60802-industrial-use-cases-0918-v13.pdf
and traffic type characterization: http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2018/60802-ademaj-traffic-type-characterization-1118-v01.pdf
indicate that the most stringent requirement is zero loss.
The next one is how many consecutive packets may be lost
There are more relaxed cases.

This section is: 7.4.  Industrial M2M Asks

Maybe we should focus on the stringent cases.

What about updating the bullet to:

"Low packet loss (e.g., zero, limited number of consecutive packets)"

?

Regards,
Janos



On 12/18/2018 8:31 PM, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote:
Thanks Janos,
Doesn't 0.1-1% sound like an awful lot of packet loss?
Do I understand correctly that you mean:
"Low packet loss (0.1-1 % of packets can be lost, but only a bounded number of consecutive packets can be lost)"

I guess I still don't exactly understand the intent, can you please clarify?
Thanks, and sorry for being dense here.
Ethan.

From: János Farkas <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 8:21 AM
To: Grossman, Ethan A. <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Maik Seewald (maseewal) <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>; Balázs Varga A <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Suresh Krishnan <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Resolving the remaining Use Cases Draft Comments - Cellular Radio and Industrial M2M

Hi Ethan,

Maybe it is not a god phrase, but the intention with the phrase that the loss should be burstless was that consecutive packets should not be lost.
Perhaps the maximum consecutive loss tolerance parameter describes it better in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-flow-information-model-02<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Ddetnet-2Dflow-2Dinformation-2Dmodel-2D02&d=DwMD-g&c=lI8Zb6TzM3d1tX4iEu7bpg&r=ZcHC6wX_gDwPDcfMaFNZiQ&m=0W0EQyafQ7HdKxGYDUDOn91m44yUJHQre2QdC0Pq5rI&s=xtlwetwJuYWGjTBmpNfLC8CvvhDk4x1YkRjNDTE0rws&e=>. It is the "maximum    number of consecutive packets whose loss can be tolerated"

Maybe updating the bullet in the use cases draft to:

"Low packet loss (0.1-1 %, limited number of consecutive packets)"

?

Regards,
Janos
On 12/16/2018 6:03 AM, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote:
Balazs, Janos:
* Section 7.4

What does burstless mean (especially in the context of low packet loss)?