Re: [dhcwg] Draft for Re-chartering

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Wed, 10 January 2018 19:14 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540EA12DB6D for <dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gB8X1yvcZBT1 for <dhcwg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qk0-x234.google.com (mail-qk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EE4612DA69 for <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id a8so135646qkb.8 for <dhcwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:30 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=fhKdL5dU12I4SrnNGfT7pDG1qvJkQnfnP0wfMcXirRg=; b=ie2oLIdBfWdHDxhg4e1/yQhMFky3sdjyJkAr2podeX/U7Mf5tvZE4e3E3cPGkb8OfS XLRATQ7CyQjbSa6dUaipYkhZQFQ8NCPhZdRtF7a3QKIKnk+zMpgyq1lTbO4wIvQeJNR2 HTLNKJhwhoZlOy0eIcv7kEUzc5U+iGxJeXu5MRRP7G7N0JgRmmlBighA9LpbqJueTukS 27RBaV6uc7OZ+M/DiUuaC9CP016GbxyuBzfMVn7xn5RSX2j6I81cV4ShC/aya/2DVRc8 hZwWE+bfuRp0yHIgbVFNlMj2uuQcxzviwn2i9FxT6J3cOpDHfsvoC8DYlKSl4RxaZBVa Bg5A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=fhKdL5dU12I4SrnNGfT7pDG1qvJkQnfnP0wfMcXirRg=; b=YSEECWlq2TzZ38EvmXNqLJmIjkZQeMdZylzSJfXyfYYGjB7XX6EQP1ICrBI6L6Xh/J Q4KH5z6uZzoVZbPZVV3GXxjiPlFd3O3n6xAPPFx3ETAh2YM57c/oMj+2vDH58QGxGDiw 7Ni+DzlBREdAeNwXnXyO5OtpyBTtT1AHb2t7wokY28JAlKh/wfR4IJQjr5iavc0BuT6n mntw1APuwthcFMHBbenagaRoF2tbeGPG91YPdjRu0Qjgv6vk7Ghn1+2cl2YnupzqbNRd V9S3RdpDKGNFIY2hPxWPzXf4L6quXIhEWQgTteNYLtHDoWFfcxiPv85GGRDO43Jcy4rQ LKgg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdtxj2VgcwZRTdyypEW5l4DBF7nYi80BQbG/n2QlbebBqzxfPML 8Mpqm7B5+fqFRfauKy4Ms04TPA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouNfQSjLK+hXfnBA8uJFF+huUUDcF6AhJrpMT7YQYhnarJF8u6xI9zAvAaILnRNzYm+7e/TTQ==
X-Received: by 10.200.40.115 with SMTP id 48mr29969469qtr.335.1515611669579; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.0.30.153] (c-24-60-163-103.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v11sm10909126qtg.6.2018.01.10.11.14.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:14:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-Id: <D463E9C1-F0B8-4F0F-B6D6-3D08CC3A3934@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_546B4B8A-57B2-430D-B2D9-B0D15EB2E752"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\))
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:14:25 -0500
In-Reply-To: <ffa2ac46b00b4f12a89c8e14656502c8@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
Cc: Tomek Mrugalski <tomasz.mrugalski@gmail.com>, "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
References: <c75fcb03185b49bab003dfa5e6a8f795@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <0fd9d640-55d0-d7a2-eb06-a6de681b5491@gmail.com> <76942a0f18d24473a8fe54be29f4b4b8@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com> <C804CF0C-1826-41BC-8BAA-4B57F63834B9@fugue.com> <ffa2ac46b00b4f12a89c8e14656502c8@XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dhcwg/uP-fGYWWzTr9qXTtw_cbYWUCHY4>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Draft for Re-chartering
X-BeenThere: dhcwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dhcwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dhcwg/>
List-Post: <mailto:dhcwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg>, <mailto:dhcwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 19:14:33 -0000

On Jan 10, 2018, at 2:06 PM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com> wrote:
> I think to add any work not on our charter, we need approval from the WG’s responsible AD (not just any AD). And, the point of this was to say that if the option definition work wasn’t being done elsewhere, we would be the last resort place to do it (pending AD approval).

Right, my point is that the responsible AD for DHC is likely not the right AD to sponsor the kind of work that's being talked about.   IOW, this is simply not the right approach.

When we originally put the text in the charter, it hadn't sunk in that we weren't really solving the problem that we intended to solve when we required AD approval—the problem of people shopping their ideas to the DHC working group when they didn't get buy-in from the area where the work should have been done. Instead, we'd simply moved the burden for saying no from the working group to the AD.

Turning it around—requiring that an AD sponsor the work, actually solves the problem we were originally trying to solve.   It means that Suresh can now say "that's not in my area, so it doesn't make sense for me to sponsor it," instead of having to come up with a reason not to approve it.
 
> I’m OK with deleting “Or, when no respective WG exists, the“ since it would be covered in bullet point 3 – whether we remove the “and any option definition work” text from there or not. Perhaps fewer works are better, so do both? And, this basically matches the text in the current charter.

Yes, I know it does, but I think the current text is still problematic, hence the comment.
 
> Bullet point 1 is pretty vague.  What are "operational considerations?"
>  
> That text comes from the current charter (it was adjusted slightly by recent comments from Tomek). I think this is what RFC 7969 (Customizing DHCP Configuration on the Basis of Network Topology) was done “under” in the current charter. And, probably RFC 7844 (Anonymity Profiles for DHCP Clients). Do you think that we need to clarify this to say something like “operational considerations (such as those covered by RFC 7969 and 7844)”? Or?

I would make it more broad and detailed: "Informational documents providing operational or implementation advice about DHCPv6, as well as documents specifying standard mechanisms for operating, administering and managing DHCPv6 servers, clients and relay agents."