Re: [dnsoverhttp] [Ext] Caching model

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Tue, 31 October 2017 01:46 UTC

Return-Path: <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Original-To: dnsoverhttp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsoverhttp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E83413FBF3 for <dnsoverhttp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.721
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=koRFoh4V; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=QfFnp2Kl
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZcUXgXVJkvte for <dnsoverhttp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C4BF13FB34 for <dnsoverhttp@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6DA20DBE; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:46:02 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:46:02 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=++rc8P8kZpZKWTNCj0IuDqnhaxYMD l1vz19StT1WgLY=; b=koRFoh4Vw8F58DO+5AYSYmRFH0IvX0Y53lbt6GhAu9jjg G8DAwGRKCiNnASPuYcllimRmfRTbgrnfi4rjvtzn/5UZ3WpQ/Egyz3x/7NB68xsB hZK8eLj8dBrP6uAX5yvdKXHy/Rxtn4PajLMQwjQmdkB9IuCn0fSEBp5xn71agBAB V2XbwCaD8pIp4gF+QV0RLygCQGWQ0xlH1Mi/rzVpRqz2rp3Ex+W3pMYHVM49Tp4f /0HhY1d3Cvfe8O5r3wY82m/QpPj0Kh0Ta8FPJJCyDaQm2e1PqLrWr8GTKRyKuUhc H/fu++G/VjoZzYbtRgTSkNjN2sNa7ytsS1BbuXW/Q==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=++rc8P 8kZpZKWTNCj0IuDqnhaxYMDl1vz19StT1WgLY=; b=QfFnp2KlhZ/02iSZ5Tr57C JwgTx+wX+mB62a5Lm7mFcwyRX5nd5TVrw7t5hmiJapqgHYOO6GEV7Y1VFuWOXTfd vand/oBeIBgMzBs709iBc3hGm2NiZcrpfbjCdksCBXzC7W7aJAozGau9Uo5A6ppU uWeMkl9FERbtl58yI3b4+zfpg3keO0wwSMHE+XtKLZHigVs89fMWB93b/Dy+gN+q td97c28/iR1Z8csLG4iEa7DUr/AmQ4GCkmxGtL2OJruhJWLkHmhW891p/r9LuFFM aZgK3KwKQK4CU9ZxhTpJ/aj6MrwPm3ftgHj0jy/+nS3n5ymLd/VyEhvUcXuz3QTw ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:2tX3WQL3IqfEW71EFErkWO2anz8Y6QCGzmp-FXdi3BDU5zLfudBa5g>
Received: from [192.168.1.18] (cpe-124-188-19-231.hdbq1.win.bigpond.net.au [124.188.19.231]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 40D587FAAA; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:46:01 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.0 \(3445.1.7\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAHbrMsCLR6rT0ktkREsftmsgx=CdgC=ZJQVQ35zMUp834o6a4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 12:45:56 +1100
Cc: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>, "dnsoverhttp@ietf.org" <dnsoverhttp@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <6FC2C22D-C0F5-4C49-BC47-546E8DDDCACA@mnot.net>
References: <CABkgnnU_5Q6BOxf+HzpuCSkb8OG5i0sgqyF9UEr9VRyDvd5s7w@mail.gmail.com> <1AC5B9DB-3439-4CE5-97D0-993411E131EF@icann.org> <CABkgnnUEhJ2x5FcFKuyiri8=ZirDz9PaBD8MsHPoMD0O2Wjgiw@mail.gmail.com> <480066BC-A3D7-425F-A306-F2DB2CFA7AFA@icann.org> <CABkgnnVGLYLZ=wgQr0540xQJTCELhZFCpAvkQPiWLLX65qY++w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHbrMsCLR6rT0ktkREsftmsgx=CdgC=ZJQVQ35zMUp834o6a4Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.1.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsoverhttp/V72OBF7V0YWia2xgVyqMNfh4Fbs>
Subject: Re: [dnsoverhttp] [Ext] Caching model
X-BeenThere: dnsoverhttp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of DNS over HTTP <dnsoverhttp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsoverhttp>, <mailto:dnsoverhttp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsoverhttp/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsoverhttp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsoverhttp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsoverhttp>, <mailto:dnsoverhttp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 01:46:06 -0000


> On 31 Oct 2017, at 12:40 pm, Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com> wrote:
> 
> This is not the working group list!
> 
> Conveniently that means that I am not chair here, so I can have opinions.
> 
> I like the idea of zeroing out the TTL on the wire, and converting the TTL into an HTTP Expires header.  If the client is using HTTP caching, it can leave the TTL at zero.  Otherwise, it should reconstitute the DNS TTL from the Expires header.

+1, although it needs to be the Freshness Lifetime (i.e., accounting for both Cache-Control and Age as well).



> 
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org> wrote:
> > Are you saying that the DNS API client might be keeping its own cache with timeouts?
> 
> Well, my DNS library does today.  We might do as Mark suggests, and
> take steps to disable that, but that might not be the easiest way to
> integrate DOH into an existing stack.  If I wanted to retrofit my
> operating system so that gethostbyname() used HTTPS, then that is
> (apparently) possible by replacing the protocol-y bits of the code.
> But it might be too disruptive to disable caching.  Maybe someone who
> has had hands on there can speak to that.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dnsoverhttp mailing list
> dnsoverhttp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsoverhttp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dnsoverhttp mailing list
> dnsoverhttp@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsoverhttp

--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/