Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Fri, 21 December 2018 06:57 UTC
Return-Path: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADA512D4E7; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 22:57:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K_MkBquHH4RO; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 22:57:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3006127B4C; Thu, 20 Dec 2018 22:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 43LfZC2sGrzFqbW; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:57:07 +0100 (CET)
Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.59]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 43LfZC1MYrzCqkM; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:57:07 +0100 (CET)
Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::ec23:902:c31f:731c%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:57:06 +0100
From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
To: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org" <lisp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01
Thread-Index: AQHUmLvbCwfwx6VMa06162KZncjK06WIwf9g
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 06:57:06 +0000
Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E05ED1C@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
References: <154518630870.5131.10104452678736081639@ietfa.amsl.com> <da4ecf32-a1dd-1854-642e-77df66e61fdb@joelhalpern.com> <e439c990-7484-870f-f2fc-ac2300ae26d7@gmail.com> <f7ab6c01-b8bc-02ee-c491-da365d2e79ea@joelhalpern.com> <407BD77D-F364-4989-A6D2-C75DF9914402@gmail.com> <9cc58af9-2bcf-89d7-a2ae-3fc80e723d78@joelhalpern.com> <D12A1D05-F75D-46FF-A5AA-991817AA42BC@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E05D7D4@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <BAA2051B-A9E8-4D08-BD8C-EB7BD3FDB2AE@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93302E05E137@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B015DEB0-CFE2-4320-A33D-5478BDA16623@gmail.com> <dc81cad8-0bf5-9060-78a2-1537841ccf7d@gmail.com> <583bf0d5-3de8-adba-7445-54ec4779a345@joelhalpern.com> <48ED1BED-7055-4DF4-AF69-E764E5ADABDB@gmail.com> <c5c18e70-8128-8c40-5bca-20193ffa3208@gmail.com> <41802D01-0195-464C-9044-9AB0B58F8B72@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <41802D01-0195-464C-9044-9AB0B58F8B72@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: fr-FR
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/iDlkXytzNNuw48RNoYFhVyVE820>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 06:57:12 -0000
Re-, Seems we are all in agreement. I implemented the changes to 8113bis in my local copy. Thank you, Brian. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com] > Envoyé : vendredi 21 décembre 2018 00:29 > À : Brian E Carpenter > Cc : Joel M. Halpern; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; gen-art@ietf.org; > lisp@ietf.org; draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01 > > > On 2018-12-21 09:18, Dino Farinacci wrote: > >> Brian wants to drop the reference to 6833bis from 8113bis. I am fine with > that. That reference being at the top of the draft saying “Updates 6833bis”. > If we remove that, he may concur. Please confirm Brian (again). > > > > Yes, that would resolve my concern. > > Thanks. > > >> Like I have mentioned to you before, the IETF “Updates” lingo is confusing > and really not useful unless a draft replaces a previous draft. And this is > not the case here. > > > > That's a debate for the RFC-interest list perhaps. IMHO the issue is that > "Updates" sometimes means "Extends" and sometimes means "Modifies". > "Obsoletes" sometimes also implies "Replaces", but that doesn't seem to > create confusion. > > Then maybe those words should be used. > > Dino > > > > > Thanks > > Brian > > > >> > >> Dino > >> > >>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 11:58 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Dino, Med, please confirm if I am reading the thread properly: > >>> > >>> I believe that the proposal is to make the small change below to 6833bis > and to drop the "updates" reference from 8113bis to 6833bis. > >>> > >>> I believe Dino's question was whether Brian agreed that the combination > suggested would address his concern. > >>> > >>> Yours, > >>> Joel > >>> > >>> On 12/20/18 2:55 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >>>> I may be missing something but I don't see how 8113bis can > >>>> logically cite 8113, which it replaces. > >>>> Frankly I think you've collectively created a plate of citation > >>>> spaghetti by not moving the IANA considerations for the type field > >>>> registry into 6830bis, which is where they naturally belong. If you > >>>> don't want to do that, I think you have to leave them in 8113bis and > >>>> simply lose the citation of 6833bis, which serves no purpose that > >>>> I can see. > >>>> Regards > >>>> Brian > >>>> On 2018-12-21 06:32, Dino Farinacci wrote: > >>>>> I’ll make that change if Brian thinks it fixes the issues he raised. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dino > >>>>> ngo > >>>>>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 11:35 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Dino, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> OLD: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned according to > >>>>>> procedures in [RFC8126]. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> NEW: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned via Standards > >>>>>> Action [RFC8113]. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> Med > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- > >>>>>>> De : Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com] > >>>>>>> Envoyé : mercredi 19 décembre 2018 19:00 > >>>>>>> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN > >>>>>>> Cc : Joel M. Halpern; Brian E Carpenter; gen-art@ietf.org; > lisp@ietf.org; > >>>>>>> draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org > >>>>>>> Objet : Re: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp- > rfc8113bis-01 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What does fixing in (1) mean? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dino > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Dec 19, 2018, at 3:51 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > >>>>>>> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Brian, whether to maintain the document standalone was discussed by > the WG. > >>>>>>> You may refer, for example, to the message from Deborah which > clarifies this > >>>>>>> point: https://www.ietf.org/mail- > archive/web/lisp/current/msg07886.html. One > >>>>>>> of the outcomes of that discussion is to add an "updates" header to > 8113bis. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> FWIW, one of the issues that led to that conclusion was whether to > cite > >>>>>>> rfc8113bis as normative in 6833bis (the approach I initially > supported) and > >>>>>>> agreed by Dino (https://www.ietf.org/mail- > >>>>>>> archive/web/lisp/current/msg07882.html). Deborah convinced me that > citing > >>>>>>> 8113bis will lead to circular dependency. Which is a fair argument. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The "updates" tag was justified as follows: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> (1) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> RFC6833bis includes the following: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Values in the "Not Assigned" range can be assigned according to > >>>>>>>> procedures in [RFC8126]. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That text is updated by RFC8113bis to be aligned with 8113: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Values can be assigned via Standards Action > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> (2) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> RFC8113bis extends the type field to grab more bits/values when the > >>>>>>> available types are exhausted. This is captured in 8113bis: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The values in the range 0-1023 are assigned via Standards Action. > >>>>>>>> This range is provisioned to anticipate, in particular, the > >>>>>>>> exhaustion of the LISP Packet types. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dino: If (1) is fixed directly in RFC6833bis, then I'm fine to > remove the > >>>>>>> "updates" header because (2) can be also seen as an extension. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>> Med > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----Message d'origine----- > >>>>>>>>> De : Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com] > >>>>>>>>> Envoyé : mercredi 19 décembre 2018 06:37 > >>>>>>>>> À : Joel M. Halpern > >>>>>>>>> Cc : Brian E Carpenter; gen-art@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; draft- > ietf-lisp- > >>>>>>>>> rfc8113bis.all@ietf.org > >>>>>>>>> Objet : Re: [lisp] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lisp- > rfc8113bis- > >>>>>>> 01 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Mohmad to comment. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Dino > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2018, at 8:49 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That is the other fix he offered. Just remove the updates tag. > >>>>>>>>>> I will leav eit to you and the the authors to determine which is > correct. > >>>>>>>>>> Yours, > >>>>>>>>>> Joel > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18 11:43 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> 8113bis should say that is it *extending* the type field so we > can have > >>>>>>>>> more types. The word “update” I always had a problem with because > it can > >>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>> interpreted as “replacing". Replacing something to fix a problem. > >>>>>>>>>>> 8113 is simply asking for one of the type value codepoint, so > there can > >>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>> another format to have more types. > >>>>>>>>>>> Dino > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2018, at 9:24 PM, Joel M. Halpern > <jmh@joelhalpern.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Authors: that sounds like a reasonable addition to me? > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yours, > >>>>>>>>>>>> Joel > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18 10:48 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2018-12-19 15:46, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is part of the package to move the coherent set of base > LISP > >>>>>>> specs > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to PS. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason we did this rather than folding it into 6830bis / > 6833bis > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we had originally simply cited 8113, and then realized > that > >>>>>>> needed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to move to PS along with everything else. It seemed (and is) > simpler > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it separately rather than to further modify 6830bis / > 6933bis. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for why it updates 6833bis, that is because one of the > cahnges in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moving the set to PS was to improve the split as to which > information > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> belonged in which document. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, but I still don't find it logical The text doesn't explain > which > >>>>>>>>> part of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 6833bis is impacted, and normally these days we require such an > >>>>>>>>> explanation. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if there is an impact, you're missing the opportunity of > fixing > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> error > >>>>>>>>>>>>> or gap in 6833bis, so the reader of 6833bis will be none the > wiser > >>>>>>>>> unless > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you insert a reference to 8113bis. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, if there is no error or gap, you don't need > >>>>>>>>> "Updates:" > >>>>>>>>>>>>> at all. (Unfortunately, we don't have an "Extends:" header.) > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yours, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joel > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/18 9:25 PM, Brian Carpenter wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Review result: Ready with Issues > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The > General Area > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being > processed > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments > just > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like any other last call comments. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-01.txt > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Review Date: 2018-12-19 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2018-12-27 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IESG Telechat date: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary: Ready with issues > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comments: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I note that this is being raised from Experimental to the > standards > >>>>>>>>> track. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Presumably that depends on the base LISP spec becoming PS. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Minor issues: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "This document updates I-D.ietf-lisp-rfc6833bis." The text > doesn't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain which text is updated. This is in contrast to > RFC8113, which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explains clearly how it updates RFC6830 (*not* RFC6833). Why > doesn't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this draft claim to update rfc6830bis? I'm going to assume > that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an error. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, why wasn't the definition of the LISP Packet Types > registry > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved into the base spec (rfc6830bis)? That is where it > belongs. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since rfc6830bis (and rfc6833bis) are still under IESG > review, > >>>>>>>>> anything > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in them that needs updating should be updated! The fact is > that > >>>>>>>>> rfc8113bis > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extends rfc6830bis, which is not the same thing as "updates". > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the WG thinks that implementers of 6830bis need to read > 8113bis, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be a normative reference in 6830bis to 8113bis. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> lisp mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>> lisp@ietf.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > >> > >
- [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-l… Brian Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ie… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Gen-art] [lisp] Genart last call review of d… Brian E Carpenter