Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status codes
Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz> Wed, 24 April 2013 13:30 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3545121F910E for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 06:30:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.527
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.527 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.072, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LZYpC0Jxaccc for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 06:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1A221F9027 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 06:30:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1UUzl6-0000os-9b for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:29:16 +0000
Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:29:16 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1UUzl6-0000os-9b@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <squid3@treenet.co.nz>) id 1UUzl1-0000o4-2l for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:29:11 +0000
Received: from ip-58-28-153-233.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz ([58.28.153.233] helo=treenet.co.nz) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <squid3@treenet.co.nz>) id 1UUzkz-00005G-HS for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:29:11 +0000
Received: from [192.168.2.7] (103-9-43-149.flip.co.nz [103.9.43.149]) by treenet.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70923E6F39; Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:28:42 +1200 (NZST)
Message-ID: <5177DE06.5000305@treenet.co.nz>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:28:38 +1200
From: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Adrien W. de Croy" <adrien@qbik.com>
CC: "ietf-http-wg@w3.org" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
References: <em6b971646-ac26-4ca6-98e9-3ff08dca750f@bombed>
In-Reply-To: <em6b971646-ac26-4ca6-98e9-3ff08dca750f@bombed>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=58.28.153.233; envelope-from=squid3@treenet.co.nz; helo=treenet.co.nz
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-3.449, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1UUzkz-00005G-HS dd3c87cb00f70b258d6b4811206c8175
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status codes
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/5177DE06.5000305@treenet.co.nz>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/17534
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>
On 24/04/2013 7:46 p.m., Adrien W. de Croy wrote: > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Amos Jeffries" <squid3@treenet.co.nz> >> On 24/04/2013 4:39 p.m., Adrien W. de Croy wrote: >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net> >>>> >>>> On 24/04/2013, at 12:41 PM, Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we can give better advice than that. If a server >>>>>>> responds with a final status code instead of 100 (Continue) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. The response must be the last response on the connection. >>>>>>> The response should contain "Connection: close" header. After >>>>>>> the response is written, the server must initiate a lingering >>>>>>> close of the connection (p1#6.6). >>>>>> That seems too restrictive; as long as the server reads the rest >>>>>> of the request properly (discarding it), it should be able to >>>>>> recover and reuse the connection. >>>>> >>>>> The problem comes with intermediaries. How are they to know the >>>>> bytes following were the original advertised payload or not? the >>>>> status from server has no guarantee of arriving after the client >>>>> payload starts arriving. >>>>> The only way to guarantee safety on the connection is to close it >>>>> or always send payload. >>> >>> >>> I'm really struggling to see what benefit can be derived by a client >>> in knowing whether a server supports 100 continue or not. So to me >>> Expects: 100-continue is a complete waste of space. I've never seen >>> one so I guess implementors by and large agree. >> >> I guess you have never tried uploading a video to the YouTube through >> an old intermediary which requires authentication. At best (Basic) it >> doubles the upload time and can cause the whole transaction to abort >> with a timeout. At worst (NTLM) it can do the same while consuming up >> to 3x the total size of the uncompressed video in bandwidth. This >> exact use-case is why we pushed HTTP/1.1 experiments into Squid-2.7. > similar issue with webmail uploading attachments. that's why I wrote > http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-decroy-http-progress-00.txt > > I removed the discussion about flow-control after the aforementioned > discussion about using chunked transfers for requests. > > But I don't see how 100 continue makes any difference in this case. > The client needs to either > > a) close and retry. This won't work for any connection-oriented auth > mechanism. On the contrary the connection can safely be closed after the first request/response and the initial challenge with any mechanism, even connection-oriented ones. The credentials state does not exist until the followup client request with Authorization: header attached. That is the point where closure is a probem for connection-oriented auth, BUT also by that point Expect has already taken place and capability is known to be available or not. Squid administrators have been using exactly this challenge+close method for some years now to avoid MSIE bugs in NTLM. So we have evidence of success outside of Expect. Amos
- p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status codes Mark Nottingham
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Zhong Yu
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Ken Murchison
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… James M Snell
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Mark Nottingham
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Amos Jeffries
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Mark Nottingham
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Adrien W. de Croy
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Amos Jeffries
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Willy Tarreau
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Willy Tarreau
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Adrien W. de Croy
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Adrien W. de Croy
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Amos Jeffries
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Zhong Yu
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Ken Murchison
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Willy Tarreau
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Ken Murchison
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Willy Tarreau
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Daniel Stenberg
- Re: p2: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status c… Ken Murchison
- #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status cod… Mark Nottingham
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Mark Nottingham
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Willy Tarreau
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Ken Murchison
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Zhong Yu
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Alex Rousskov
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Mark Nottingham
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Mark Nottingham
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Willy Tarreau
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Zhong Yu
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Michael Sweet
- Re: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status codes Peter Occil
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Willy Tarreau
- Re: #467: Expect: 100-continue and "final" status… Mark Nottingham