[idn] Re: WG Review: Internationalized Domain Names in Applications (idna)
JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com> Mon, 03 March 2008 20:30 UTC
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To: iesg@ietf.org, Lisa Dusseault <ldusseault@commerce.net>, idn@ops.ietf.org, Mark Davis <mark.davis@unicode.org>, John C Klensin <klensin@jck.com>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>, Lisa Dusseault <lisa@osafoundation.org>, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>, Patrik F�ltstr�m <patrik@frobbit.se>, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>, Tan Tin Wee <tinwee@bic.nus.edu.sg>, subbiah <subbiah@i-dns.net>, Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>
From: JFC Morfin <jefsey@jefsey.com>
Subject: [idn] Re: WG Review: Internationalized Domain Names in Applications (idna)
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At 18:57 26/02/2008, The IESG wrote: >A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area. The >IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter >was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please >send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by March 4, >2008. Dear Friends, A few years ago the same scenario developed when introducing the RFC 3066bis failed Draft, but without an initial consensus check. I explained several times that the choice for some Gov/Private/Civil Society interests was to get it corrected or aborted (then at the risk of the whole IETF). The decision was to get it corrected in consideration of its probable mandatory usage by IBM/MS customers. I accepted to carry the job after the WG-IDNA's poor results where it was that I became accustomed to the IETF. It was also due to architecturally erroneous (IMHO) RFC 3935. This was pure mail-combat in what Economic Intelligence calls "knowledge war" and the DoD calls "shaping the world". This was a nice exchange for no one, but it did preserve interoperability with other referential systems, RFC 4646 was not adopted by the IESG before the very day it could be accepted, and its "internationalization" doctrine was further defeated at ISO TC46. As a result, I was the only one to be PR-acted and the IETF was not hurt (except by the IESG not respecting its RFC 4646 obligations, what RFC 4646bis has now to take care of).. This time, the DNS in the Multilingual Internet is certainly just as important as langtags are but is more visible. It also represents much more money and is led now by Google/Yahoo!. Harald Alvestrand, this time, has also prepared his plans better: he banned me first from his IDN proprietary list (the best way to obtain consensus). This has clarified things, relieving me from any moral obligation to cooperate with the IETF. It was fortunate since the target is no longer to maintain interoperability from inside the RFCs, because IDNA is not operable at all. However, this is something now for the future to show. So, I suggest: 1. to follow Harald in transforming his proprietary mailing list into an IETF WG, with Martin Dürst and Mark Davis as co-chairs. With Harald, Patrick, and John, _IF_ IDNA has a chance, it will be well supported. I will not interfere with the process before proofing the deliverables. My projects will have several lurkers who may elect to give their opinion if a consensus is not met, or if there is an attempt to word any exclusive solution in violation of RFC 1958 principle of constant change. So, the only remaining confusion I see would be to call this WG a WG-IDN when it is only allowed to be a WG-IDNA. This might create some confusion with the actions I engage for six months now, within the IGF framework (an emergent IDN Dynamic Coalition which may/may not chose to support IDNA). 2. to follow John Klensin's draft-klensin-idna-alternatives-00.txt. For those interested: I answered his call and proposed the discuss@idnalt.org mailing list to that end. I agree with John that if IDNA does not work prefectly, http://idnalt.org will be useful to document why it was the best solution. Anyone can subscribe to this list and contribute. I do not plan to post there except to raise some missing point if any. I can also transfer the list control to whoever would like it. This list should be one of the sources of the http://wikidna.org site. As far as I am concerned, I said that I was working on my own Multilingual Internet solution. This solution will need to be tested without interfering with the ccNSO's Fast Crack project, so that it calls first for its own test-bed to be dealt with. Then, it calls for the solution to be documented, software to be developed, and tables to be stabilized. This involves issues that have been delayed by the RFC 4646 saga (one of missing concern I observe in the IETF is lingual consistency, may be because all this is handled at the application layer with some confusion between languages and scripts?). I certainly understand the urgency of an IETF move in order to match the ICANN Paris announcements. Even if I would love to present a working solution in Paris, my priority is to introduce a good general solution that works and that is able to work with the semantic addressing and multilingual distributed registry system projects I explained. I note that all the IETF IDNA propositions so far have not addressed many issues including 3LD phishing, babel names (when the ADE is xn--a-registered-TM), and cannot even support French language off-the-shelves. Good luck! jfc