Re: New Non-WG Mailing List: CACAO

Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> Thu, 13 September 2018 04:59 UTC

Return-Path: <barryleiba@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE16130E17 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.503
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.146, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2J_j1JMLJqZ7 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FC2C130E14 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id l7-v6so2131489iok.6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=+LvT8UfGknVn8RlkZq1N3YjORIhNdAbmHdL4kY4owuA=; b=R51b7BAXxu/KT3yrNIHhReY+entRj+TCR5bWhiLoqUk4ArepaCTHhtsxNzbNF2xEPT 1k39YJOF2IPE3pkP5FdlEsNK/1sYFuaKdRxrz7Hyr5fqn39bIuse0Z+jEmnbs//sJnow EjgzDEEE0LrDCOYHZj560Cs/yLxctG4anrMnGtVfnZTr814TX09y5c2pRQxpEQUfTlrB OKefYEQ/UVidNODIqcgsipfB7nQcqAga90pCviggeEC9BmF/cSAV1YrcTlp92FJ6CPPg 2+rfSnx9PL2GfQoADNyVUk6I8lrBDfNfuY186opiDIp6lRkJfzY2N0u5bv3rHTGjPg6f 44xA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+LvT8UfGknVn8RlkZq1N3YjORIhNdAbmHdL4kY4owuA=; b=TbFasvrAyQvWMUD2gLk7lKXaNMmd9jVXHUZhn2bzNFEe+MlIGMnJIXdUdnXfbmFwX1 eOAUKnb2tl+QRJM6BdTVmBDdwCPE8OBQG7cy2Po9k/nJBLNDvPJjg1Bo7JG3PUAKy0nq KyyFtBRLWUxsoshNYeJ+34JLlZEpM8HxPpD6CTpYINEd+SekLzwVd/SZvFjYvzb7/Jym Q26wefANf3aK/w669RcTdDIqrcdrg6e65HbSClxdzYTAnFfT5NdCOokWDCYqt3r5v2o6 be7r+5N1kz58YAAG1xkViZo15fRFiSREuufzcs3t2n7Bmb9f616ubBM6aRNLdY0yuP4K i2Kw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DCaNxKbEl74xdg16V7ORo+qAFwrLJ0AfGGiWFA4bVKCLV4QnNM KyyA9Ipo/9bnQkWEyMfi4MMWLBpQQiah172dBbw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vdb3206Uk1tcqI85AlUt/XAknFcD1hha7xqr6rXfQHDpV8oD7hcZAlJ0qSBWOLhP/J0lbBhWmO8LCsmLaISiOio=
X-Received: by 2002:a6b:d40c:: with SMTP id l12-v6mr4705521iog.10.1536814740154; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com
Received: by 2002:ac0:90a9:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Sep 2018 21:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBPb45EOsOi9bZPyTMryoktxZt5_ziB8jKXUsRyGPnXQ-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <153678592168.9395.10391346115284210918.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAC4RtVCe_Kp7oBg6NewiOvBqRZ9=QKeYZydErxmmUrsjyW4Mnw@mail.gmail.com> <60607ea9-1aba-6512-4a52-b7c8e09c91ba@cs.tcd.ie> <CABcZeBPb45EOsOi9bZPyTMryoktxZt5_ziB8jKXUsRyGPnXQ-Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 00:58:59 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9FVtP7d3RmBrIFkvZJAqfTM-woA
Message-ID: <CALaySJJTuj5qUxkqdwiTAbcCvATepjeSAzDK_WzNv-BFLG_NbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Non-WG Mailing List: CACAO
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/K0u0_dNK10u-bUiADSxsmMUJvPM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 04:59:03 -0000

I agree that lists are cheap and that one of our main jobs is to
facilitate discussion, so I have no issue with the creation of the
list.  I just hoped for a bit more explanation -- even "For details
see <this draft>" would have helped (I didn't know there was a draft
at all).

Anyway, just for future reference; thanks for listening.

Barry


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 12:30 AM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>; wrote:
> Full disclosure: I approved this list, so feel free to be unhappy at me.
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>;
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> On 13/09/18 03:37, Barry Leiba wrote:
>> > This really should have come with a fuller description: I shouldn't
>> > have to contact the list admins just to find out whether a new mailing
>> > list ought to be on my radar or not.
>>
>> Yeah. And the archive's empty. And it uses the almost
>> always meaningless prefix "cyber" over and over in
>> many predictable (but meaningless) ways.
>
>
> Well, the archive is empty because it was created today, so I don't think
> that's much of a critique.
>
> I'll take responsibility for not insisting on there being a very detailed
> description. I generally find the descriptions pretty uninformative (see,
> for instance https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cicm) so my bar isn't
> very high here, but I see how others might feel differently.
>
>
>
>> So that's all bad signs IMO then (except for the
>> existence of the draft.)
>>
>> I'm also a bit sad that we've gotten to the point
>> where we're setting up lists driven to any extent
>> by what's really an ill-defined marketing buzzword.
>>
>>
>> OTOH, the goal according to [1] is an information
>> model, so it could be mostly to totally harmless I
>> guess;-)
>>
>> Only other thing to note is that this happens so
>> often (new list for who knows what) that maybe the
>> tooling's a bit wrong and encourages folks to ok
>> or ask for lists without considering that others
>> don't have the same (or any) context.
>
>
> I think you and I are just going to have to disagree here. Lists are cheap
> -- they're not WGs -- and I bias in favor of facilitating discussion. I
> think this is appropriate especially in view of the fact that one of the
> first questions we ask for a proposed BOF is whether there has been a lot of
> list traffic. Again, you're free to feel differently.
>
> -Ekr
>
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> S.
>>
>> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jordan-cacao-introduction-00
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Barry
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 4:58 PM, IETF Secretariat
>> > <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>; wrote:
>> >> A new IETF non-working group email list has been created.
>> >>
>> >> List address: cacao@ietf.org
>> >> Archive: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cacao/
>> >> To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cacao
>> >>
>> >> Purpose:
>> >> This email list will be used to discuss Collaborative Automated Course
>> >> of
>> >> Action Operations (CACAO) for Cyber Security
>> >>
>> >> For additional information, please contact the list administrators.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>



-- 
Barry
--
Barry Leiba  (barryleiba@computer.org)
http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/