Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom-unicode11, i18n "directorate", and related issues
Ajay Data <ajay@xgenplus.com> Wed, 05 December 2018 01:49 UTC
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From: Ajay Data <ajay@xgenplus.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 06:51:42 +0530
To: vint=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org, ben@nostrum.com
CC: ted.ietf@gmail.com, i18n-discuss@iab.org, precis@ietf.org, ima@ietf.org, idna-update@ietf.org, resnick@episteme.net
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Subject: Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom-unicode11, i18n "directorate", and related issues
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+1 On 5 December 2018 05:51:01 GMT+05:30, Vint Cerf <vint=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >suggestion: > >set up the advisory group and allow it to offer advice to the >appropriate >AD. >This same advisory group can reasonably share its findings more >generally, >thereby "educating...." the rest of the community. No power to block >should >either explicitly or implicitly be inferred by the creation of the >advisory >body. > >vint > > >On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 7:09 PM Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: > >> Responding to a couple of points, inline: >> >> On Dec 4, 2018, at 5:54 PM, Pete Resnick <resnick@episteme.net> >wrote: >> >> Trimming a bit: >> >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 17:37, Ted Hardie wrote: >> >> Howdy Pete, >> >> >> Please re-read John's message, which includes this: >> >> "its mission was >> to advise, inform, and perhaps even educate the community on >> i18n issues, rather than merely advising the ART ADs and/or >> designating people to perform reviews late in the Last Call >> cycle. " >> >> As I have said multiple times, I have no problem with an AD >requesting a >> review of a specific individual or set of individuals. But John's >message >> is highlighting that this group is meant to be something different >than the >> usual directorate. >> >> Certainly to some small extent all of the directorates "advise, >inform, >> and perhaps even educate the community", as each is willing to do >early >> reviews, and some of the advisory groups (like the assorted >"Doctors") will >> help a WG when directly solicited by the WG. The fact that those >duties get >> a more formal mention in the mission of the i18n directorate doesn't >give >> me pause. But what I was responding to was this part of your earlier >> message: >> >> On 4 Dec 2018, at 16:02, Ted Hardie wrote: >> >> ...I inferred that the intent was to set up a group with an >> independent authority to foster work or block documents. >> >> Like Ben, I see nothing in John's words (or any of the discussions of >the >> directorate) that indicate any power to "block documents", let alone >some >> other sort of special "independent authority" (beyond what we already >have >> experience with). And that seems the real basis for your objection. I >think >> perhaps you're tilting at a windmill >> >> >> As an ART AD, my expectation is that the directorates only power to >block >> documents would be to convince a (typically ART) AD to do so. >> >> That concerns me, especially if it is meant to have a >> review power beyond "advising the ART ADs", which is what (ART) >> directorates do. Soliciting and receiving that advice is the state >you're >> pointing to, and but John has asserted this is not that. >> >> John has asserted that it is not *only* that. But the only thing that >it >> appears to be beyond that is a group that can, as John said, "advise, >> inform, and perhaps even educate the community". >> >> Given that >> assertion, I think the community ought to know and have a voice in >what it >> is instead. >> >> If it had any additional authority, I would agree. It does not appear >to, >> and therefore I do not. >> >> I also am disappointed that the ART ADs did not simply ask the >relevant >> questions of the people that they would or will put on the >Directorate, if >> they are seeking the usual sort of advice. There is no power in the >advice >> coming from a directorate rather than Individual 1 or 2. But that is >a >> timing question, not a process point. >> >> There is no power, but often there is more organization. That seems >like a >> legitimate reason for the pause. >> >> At the risk of putting words into Alexey’s mouth, I think this was an >> exceptional case due to the fact that the directorate creation was >> imminent, but perhaps not so imminent that it could finish it’s first >> review before the LC ended. It was Alexey’s choice to stop the LC, >but he >> might have chosen the same even if he just asked an individual to do >an >> expert review. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ben. >> _______________________________________________ >> IDNA-UPDATE mailing list >> IDNA-UPDATE@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idna-update >> > > >-- >New postal address: >Google >1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor >Reston, VA 20190 > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >IMA mailing list >IMA@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima -- Sent from my Android device with XGenPlus.
- [EAI] draft-faltstrom-unicode11, i18n "directorat… John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom-unicode1… Ted Hardie
- Re: [EAI] [precis] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom… Ben Campbell
- Re: [EAI] [precis] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom… Ted Hardie
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Pete Resnick
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Ted Hardie
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Pete Resnick
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Ben Campbell
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Vint Cerf
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Ajay Data
- Re: [EAI] [precis] [I18n-discuss] draft-faltstrom… John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… John C Klensin
- Re: [EAI] [Idna-update] [precis] [I18n-discuss] d… Marc Blanchet