Re: [Jmap] Draft messages - mutability

Brandon Long <blong@google.com> Wed, 26 April 2017 22:38 UTC

Return-Path: <blong@google.com>
X-Original-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: jmap@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD31128DE7 for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWUc2r1-hHBD for <jmap@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oi0-x22e.google.com (mail-oi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1A16128B8F for <jmap@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oi0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id y11so18473142oie.0 for <jmap@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/DFsrzLC2HOYIrWaInMZG0/sMJcgfv+h156MHAbfdBQ=; b=Nzfe/FZWkCKox9lfe2W3xVHVNlkBXb2t3KvpK/0RDCgxd0Nlq22fwJmnQePb+LerQp PaRSgP3OPKkfYRkqt33rIek59Jg8Jooea+bUk87KV6VDGJhSdi/pBnw7nnOKC+c75j1A RXKlkqyQNhS/CTvVhjgYKlVVMAO2jD8OIc48Ul5NcbeLW9P8aksrn/qUKLz0D1wiRpvK 5r58vjZOA4m+OZGYj5opQwc1znLQl/iylf2jOEKMfPFthS757oTfDmYdyDaJrvC6h1ww xExfMrgJlq0l0yvfTU/ZkRg8VNm5qHV1TBApofSAyuNYbjlOR1DGZoBBFMzerT9VlB+p x6wg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/DFsrzLC2HOYIrWaInMZG0/sMJcgfv+h156MHAbfdBQ=; b=hZy0FkORvR4w0BbryBDUGiRjQgqd71wdYcNpEkFIbsYjTKssNrM8Ro8yfWc64UsW7M sTvo9h5lPIi6axwEVB5KdE/bzAJxHpO0LGJRtJpxMGUsHCvnC9Mdewy/1e/NWR7fs6bp hx8jZ3xoNUdSvgq8zApPOT8Lpa+hXdeiCd9Ak4JX8I2Frge4uNhkiGghWiCWn6tfs8tS 0qbVHvIdRuGBS/PMQSymvQlxaNZMPlnYL2urg1cikChQOWq4+gZiJoB+NC9Ty25G1GtV JN+1tR59ANYCgEPaSrWa0dkuLm2Sel8Mwm4O9skm6MjG+kRKjZmuMB3DhsjvaKG1Ojw6 fXcw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7IQHlBnEge79js6Ot23NCKxbKe1oHrInUjxXSPr1fvaupX3hWj G/2Hyj5WXCKgj8+rkiZhRhDr4yr4a1iL
X-Received: by 10.157.63.143 with SMTP id r15mr1132642otc.89.1493246300877; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.182.8.101 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1493175371.126749.956396640.2F6911DF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1492998899.3316920.953769616.254C9CBD@webmail.messagingengine.com> <EDDD6045-ECAD-4EAB-AC11-842A9CB2E1CA@oracle.com> <1493084134.2830550.955039432.5403CAFB@webmail.messagingengine.com> <BFB51221-4FD4-4546-B628-595CF76B7F66@oracle.com> <1493087082.2882732.955078288.61343C16@webmail.messagingengine.com> <63973317-543D-4E5C-80D3-16F5979D747D@fugue.com> <1493175371.126749.956396640.2F6911DF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
From: Brandon Long <blong@google.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:38:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CABa8R6u4WyJoAogwdh0du=BQRmipHiZ37AjRLZadU3NGvBPhGA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Neil Jenkins <neilj@fastmail.com>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, jmap@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c0ab9053ca29054e197f46"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/jmap/Lc69gddsvMQ_z8wqQljk8sfoo8E>
Subject: Re: [Jmap] Draft messages - mutability
X-BeenThere: jmap@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: JSON Message Access Protocol <jmap.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/jmap/>
List-Post: <mailto:jmap@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jmap>, <mailto:jmap-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 22:38:24 -0000

In terms of message mutability, we've had another case for plain messages
that we find complicated, which is if the server chooses to modify the
message.

As an example case, suppose the server has decided that a message a client
has already synced is now a phishing message, and as such, wants to rewrite
all of the links in the message or make them not-linkable.  The only way to
do this with immutable messages is to remove the old message and create a
new one.[1]

If the client has already synced the message and read it, then on the next
sync, it will fail to apply the read action since the message no longer
exists, and the user will be presented with the message again as new, which
for a phishing message seems like a bad idea.

Perhaps we don't need to make them mutable, but a replace semantic which
was available in both directions would allow the client to sync state to
the new copy of the message.

[1] Of course, if you own the MUA and server, you can just say the message
is $Phishing and the MUA can modify how it displays the message, but
enterprise customers like to use their favorite clients and their security
ops folks like to protect them

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Neil Jenkins <neilj@fastmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017, at 12:40 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:
>
> I suppose that if the old draft were present in a viewer,
>
>
> Yes, this is the case I was referring to: where the draft is currently
> open for editing.
>
> Neil.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jmap mailing list
> Jmap@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jmap
>
>