Re: [Model-t] Web Tracking

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 17 February 2020 22:03 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: model-t@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: model-t@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8B7120873 for <model-t@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e6nDvbQr_reS for <model-t@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lj1-x235.google.com (mail-lj1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8FEB120041 for <model-t@iab.org>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-lj1-x235.google.com with SMTP id n18so20544874ljo.7 for <model-t@iab.org>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:45 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WyH5O0P7q0c5YZB8OdBEeNeSH8fGIskirl+Ku0kmw4s=; b=o9phxdLKnFgCWrTsYl25h2ul5eVg1zImzITKkQj32XO8TgMftdatM3c9NKnAj8DG/x +i6bJVAZUSCMbp5GM6rqG3noPhCIxtbeLTXtzUbLXqY1DUKaUw1X83dULsisfWfrushC oiRO68q2L+0DJBsTmHs649aWpSscWunK3/nAB4COaGnPz+vcZ6UD+/5sT/zruskldE8I MOavuPiECVw1mG1nInAPrrdDPgHsPbEGdQJLuYAE/OfCVo9nvSnRRj/ps2e6Tjehd6c/ qFjNlJu/KiB4bwM185Ul5fV+DjH3Xg1gO1RRFLgrhjunC8kCSEKbwn59m6MtdYdlaLcK +oIA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WyH5O0P7q0c5YZB8OdBEeNeSH8fGIskirl+Ku0kmw4s=; b=pRAP9m7AF35r0Z5R/Ndhnn/v0rEjHz54ydArAL+Pc4lGvptOfyTRWz/jpw/Y4/RUHA Kxt4spH+gswDLVehq60aUnggcZSjacaOJXZEFZwxfmqBN0/kZixORmrtQsuOyr077309 co2RcZzcCFZeXfI7JBU9gkfkjXiDvvNeBFgGdCs8MGAsJyMoD+m1W3wngSvXXfo43FIG d8r5YNka4fI0QKzim+qcMblXGPnAXnfiBsKqAaBn5bNXiqiRQevN+QADbS7h8J8RDlXQ ecdxZuEA2GIWofeOTCytad1aPVkMrxH/eV4lOubAABxoGSCJU59uaaAnWGOH/qpJfkCl z2NA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW+emakDqHxDNPjpErhMNaGTU7WKbWJp2GQVUQDLwLwJy5NKBjn WwLJafq+QV3fdqbrKP6sJ4bwOP/aw0qj1O71ltih0Lpp
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwqJ3VB6I3aMKBJqD8mKT5BovtAct/vb068s4eaGT0AUPpWFm7HYm3DGDLHyiQq8qv0bjSNhV4/dot4tMtkDII=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3e10:: with SMTP id l16mr10957781lja.286.1581977023868; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:43 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CABcZeBN-HNe-j2japnCT5HR49__mxR7jiFAJ4NO27CdpuvirXw@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+b5LWSP4eu3DMWZ9om5rE2owehBHBTk1id=MJ9pvc-73Q@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBO6v9a6hXqbj_RxLxamZvvjU13BRJLnWb-V8g6wBpVZ3g@mail.gmail.com> <CALZ3u+b070vGKwi+QeCoE-hvbgXEYnzRCwyKLZ5cqetXgCHJjw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALZ3u+b070vGKwi+QeCoE-hvbgXEYnzRCwyKLZ5cqetXgCHJjw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:03:07 -0800
Message-ID: <CABcZeBNDaG=N9Uf3gLNQ=W5ObA48oQca+0bH4mSTGpjBEkD+TQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>
Cc: model-t@iab.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008cff47059eccbaaf"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/model-t/xbu3iqvqihJiQMVWpwqhUyFxs5E>
Subject: Re: [Model-t] Web Tracking
X-BeenThere: model-t@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions of changes in Internet deployment patterns and their impact on the Internet threat model <model-t.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/model-t>, <mailto:model-t-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/model-t/>
List-Post: <mailto:model-t@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:model-t-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/model-t>, <mailto:model-t-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 22:03:48 -0000

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 1:48 PM Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:

> Peace,
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 12:34 AM Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your note. I feel like both of these attacks fall into the
>> category of "local compromise" and thus are in a distinct bucket from Web
>> tracking.
>>
>
> There are different shades of "local" on the user's machine.  E.g. I think
> one of the purposes of QLOG was to provide transparency about what
> applications are doing by resurrecting the side reporting channel (which
> existed ad-hoc before the applications began to carry their own encryption
> stacks) to the system.
>
> I personally feel there are different *scopes* of tracking rather than
> different types.  The difference is basically that we won't be able to find
> a MECE segmentation which won't be biased.
>

I don't really agree with this. Web Tracking uses existing Web APIs in an
unexpected (and largely undesirable) way. It is a totally different threat
model from the attacker running malicious code on the user's machine.

Anyway, I'm not sure debating this is that useful, as we're not writing a
document here; my note was merely my description of a specific topic. If
you'd like to write your own description of some set of threats, you should
go ahead.

-Ekr