Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice
Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.co.uk> Tue, 20 March 2018 10:44 UTC
Return-Path: <tony@yaanatech.co.uk>
X-Original-To: patient@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: patient@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F931242F7 for <patient@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 03:44:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GgX4zMVySVpO for <patient@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uk-www1.yaanatech.uk (uk-www1.yaanatech.uk [46.20.116.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66466124207 for <patient@ietf.org>; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 03:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.53] (pool-70-106-194-121.clppva.fios.verizon.net [70.106.194.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uk-www1.yaanatech.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C7E2F540231; Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:44:31 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-To: tony@yaanatech.co.uk
To: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
Cc: "patient@ietf.org" <patient@ietf.org>, Brian Witten <brian_witten@symantec.com>
References: <MWHPR16MB14881688FE400E3277CA8A9393310@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB14889B7535153E5844649CA393370@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB14880A12D15AC58FDD5CEC8793370@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB1488D43F3B53BC7BBE9D836593370@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB1488853B0E4F7BB8E557288D93370@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB148845FB069D03625BC399B193370@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <MWHPR16MB1488848D7AC828EBB8DA90B093350@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <DM5PR16MB148477E1FAA4C210A3B013F7930A0@DM5PR16MB1484.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1712141805020.15188@bofh.nohats.ca> <MWHPR16MB148859D8FC007D9B9D5005E6930A0@MWHPR16MB1488.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> <988132f9-478d-2012-9ad2-353534f07db7@yaanatech.co.uk> <e89e816d-76da-c062-b3fc-ae2e73c176ae@yaanatech.co.uk> <EA01ED95-E326-4340-BE72-F7518A4A3C1A@netapp.com>
From: Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.co.uk>
Organization: Yaana Limited
Message-ID: <ebd8515e-8032-2711-ff72-7eb7540595f2@yaanatech.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 06:44:30 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <EA01ED95-E326-4340-BE72-F7518A4A3C1A@netapp.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2132C886A26DEA9AEC8277FB"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/patient/ddIhl_jQCJELixNJgzdUIsDET3g>
Subject: Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice
X-BeenThere: patient@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Protecting against Attacks Tunneling In Encrypted Network Tunnels <patient.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/patient>, <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/patient/>
List-Post: <mailto:patient@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/patient>, <mailto:patient-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:44:37 -0000
Hi Lars, Whatever ETSI does will be fully compliant with IPR law. I am also a lawyer and well aware of the IETF's assertions and complaints over the years. The irony here is that TLS is actually an ITU-ISO standard. Perhaps we can all just collaborate here on urgently needed specifications rather than making threats. --tony ps. In the early 90s, as ISOC Executive Director, I also helped set up the IETF's own rather unique IPR arrangements because of its lack of legal existence, and effected the purchase of considerable liability insurance for IETF decision makers. Presumably that still exists. :-) On 20-Mar-18 6:00 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > Hi, > > On 2018-3-19, at 20:01, Tony Rutkowski <tony@yaanatech.co.uk> wrote: >> ETSI TC CYBER spent more than a year studying the "visibility" ecosystem, the requirements, venues, and technologies across a swath of industries worldwide - including what was occurring in academic research and published patents. It published what is still the most comprehensive technical report on the subject. And, it has moved ahead with four visibility technical specifications, a workshop, and a hackathon. (Frankly, controls for levels of "observability" and "granularity" seem like better choices for capabilities being sought. >> >> The proposed ETSI TC CYBER technical specifications address both network based and data center based requirements - both in-band and out-of- band - with techniques that are arguably best of breed and drawn from existing R&D. To the extent there are omissions or failings, the ETSI processes are entirely open and the work will evolve and institute corrections. > if ETSI TC CYBER is seriously embarking on a path that modifies IETF-originated standards without the IETF's explicit prior agreement, they are setting themselves up for a very visible and politically embarrassing failure. > > We had the same type of conflict with the ITU-T serval times in the past. ETSI TC CYBER might want to check how well that went for the ITU-T. > > Lars > > > _______________________________________________ > PATIENT mailing list > PATIENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/patient
- [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Internet Draft posted as requ… Mingliang Pei
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Bret Jordan
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested … Paul Wouters
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Paul Wouters
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft posted as … Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Black, David
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] RE: Internet Draft posted as … Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Bret Jordan
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Diego R. Lopez
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Black, David
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: [saag] Internet Draft pos… Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Paul Wouters
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: [saag] Internet Draft pos… Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Diego R. Lopez
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Bret Jordan
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: [saag] Internet Draft pos… Mark Kennedy
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Roland Zink
- Re: [Patient] Internet Draft posted as requested - Roland Zink
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Black, David
- Re: [Patient] [saag] Internet Draft posted as req… Bret Jordan
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Tero Kivinen
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: [saag] Internet Draft pos… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Patient] [saag] [EXT] Re: Internet Draft pos… Michael Richardson
- [Patient] the IETF participant choice Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Ted Lemon
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Ted Lemon
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: the IETF participant choi… Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Eggert, Lars
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: the IETF participant choi… Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Patient] [EXT] Re: the IETF participant choi… Brian Witten
- Re: [Patient] the IETF participant choice Kathleen Moriarty