Re: [smartobjectdir] Call for Review of draft-iab-smart-object-architecture-04.txt, "Architectural Considerations in Smart Object Networking"

Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 29 August 2014 11:08 UTC

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From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <D023AA88.2CB9A%wesley.george@twcable.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 07:07:53 -0400
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References: <D1D25EE7-9B6F-47BD-9D39-3EC8B9288D98@iab.org> <D023AA88.2CB9A%wesley.george@twcable.com>
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Cc: IAB Chair <iab-chair@iab.org>, IETF SmartObjectDir <smartobjectdir@ietf.org>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Subject: Re: [smartobjectdir] Call for Review of draft-iab-smart-object-architecture-04.txt, "Architectural Considerations in Smart Object Networking"
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I agree 100% with the observations Wes makes and his recommendation that text be added to the document to the effect that IPv6 is strongly recommended for use in Smart Objects

- Ralph

On Aug 27, 2014, at 3:55 PM 8/27/14, George, Wes <wesley.george@twcable.com>; wrote:

> I made the following comment (in part) on -03. I'm making it again,
> because it still applies to -04.
> 
> "It seems odd to me that this document is silent on the architectural
> considerations that IPv4 exhaustion may have on Smart Object networking.
> RFC 6272 discusses support for both protocols, but partially because it
> was written in 2011, it treats them equally (no recommendation to support
> one protocol over another). I think we’re doing smart object implementers
> a disservice by not discussing the increasing likelihood that access to
> IPv4 addresses will be challenging and costly, especially for something at
> the scale of Smart Object networking."
> 
> 
> At the time, the feedback from Hannes was that discussing a specific
> protocol was too low-level for this document, but I argued that the lack
> of IPv4 address availability, the potential order of magnitude of the
> deployment of devices in applications like this, and their limitations
> (power, etc) make IPv4 vs IPv6 very much an interoperability consideration
> and an architectural consideration. If your architecture doesn't take into
> account the fact that we're out of IPv4 addresses, then it's not much of
> an architecture. Adding a discussion about IPv4's limitations and a
> recommendation for IPv6 isn't a discussion of a protocol for the sake of
> compare and contrast, as much as it is acknowledging the reality of the
> situation.
> I don't believe that smart object networking is viable at any real scale
> without IPv6. There simply aren't enough addresses, even taking into
> account RFC1918. I see this *today* in my own network with deployments
> like large-scale WiFi and cell tower deployment, set-top-boxes, etc. I
> think that's the right sort of scale to observe as an analog for smart
> object networks -- they could potentially be orders of magnitude bigger.
> The more clearly we say that smart object networks and their supporting
> systems should assume IPv6, and possibly IPv6-only because of IPv4's
> inherent scaling limitation, the better off we're going to be.
> 
> So in terms of smart objects, especially those that are severely resource
> constrained, I think the recommendations are- First support IPv6, whether
> it's full IPv6, or something like 6LoPAN. Any interworking or other issues
> that arise from that choice can be addressed on the far side where there
> isn't such a resource constraint or scaling issue, eg placing an ALG or
> NAT64 in front of the IPv6-only devices to make them reachable by legacy
> IPv4 clients and management systems.
> Even if you assume that smart object deployments aren't going to be
> largely greenfield (which in a lot of cases they are, because the
> infrastructure doesn't exist today), it's almost always going to be easier
> to make changes to the network and other systems to get those to support
> IPv6 than it is to add transition technologies, support dual-stack, or
> retrofit smart object networks from IPv4 to IPv6 later. This is due to the
> scale of deployment and the resource constraints of the device class.
> That's an architectural consideration that drives toward a recommendation
> of single-stack whenever possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Several IAB folks, including two of the authors agreed that this is
> something that should be added, but it has not been addressed in this
> version. In fact, section 2.1 presents IP version as if it is still open
> for discussion on each design, and the other mention of single stack vs
> dual stack in section 4.2 appears to have been removed. I'm hoping that
> this was merely an oversight rather than a conscious decision.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Wes George
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/27/14, 2:18 PM, "IAB Chair" <iab-chair@iab.org>; wrote:
> 
>> This is a call for review of "Architectural Considerations in Smart
>> Object Networking" prior to potential approval as an IAB stream RFC.
>> 
>> The document is available for inspection here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-smart-object-architecture/
>> 
>> The Call for Review will last until 24 September 2014.  Please send
>> comments to iab@iab.org.
>> 
>> On behalf of the IAB,
>>  Russ Housley
>>  IAB Chair
>> 
> 
> 
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