IETF Logo Mail Archive

[TLS] Re: tls-server-end-point channel binding for ML-DSA

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 29 October 2025 16:48 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: tls@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADCC7E28C3F for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jgKU88waxT9n for <tls@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tiger.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net (tiger.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.218.248]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 191FD7E28A33 for <tls@ietf.org>; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 09:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF80560B6B; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 16:47:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a424.dreamhost.com (100-121-87-189.trex-nlb.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.121.87.189]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 587BD5613CA; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 16:47:51 +0000 (UTC)
ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1761756471; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=xu45CKbELCW5bnSd6Wz0gMPm8yJKUswhf1/6ooy0/19RiBt1wCaQR0NGKfcJgPRsHZBEFD j+BXCPyEyQyFKntflpSOXwVe8zNNjOJYxBQUfAbk0AOpretZszXywIiRmNRXgSFa7S+ONG BqCDKjpPQ1QDMYkhURXagZ84LRvS0aK6qg0V7i+d/nQjaf5AQXdMN633jMZSHrSR+275z2 mUIn0yW2wHfw2L8jOYs/t4/+M0WZqwRo5+nvVsPpfnBNSG3uZXI4PfJYSB6WIbhbJ2a8GE w8S+eS0LjmS7G8T071B0g037mi6mw2DwbZDc+9Nf5fFChi/Uyxym9S9hTlnOvw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1761756471; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=wZKI39dkgGtKVrjzBBMJfkN+2gUfBl3SKEUCvONOAtU=; b=sdsWbB7lhvFU2cot66nQ2G3BDlYnvn2eHtR/8iS1i15woe4E5aHsYEkwdBO4pzRWm7OYPk BjbPjbXn/8FFjfbx5H7TZsYzKr3zSy+uabhorck63+voWasgVghnAAqRWoJVvw5z165A1G jgs7ppDROiAokHVYmkF9INVosiuggGSFQY0ESDpdrMSxbuz3yfuQRsatCIOJYhtYml4WfI 58A8sAC0yWVPc126UqY/RAu+06qdhZeewgfIf2LlkA7nwlptDVIOkhC0cWwuAqi058ljGg f6FerFeRH8tUmLOjJxUWYFwfXuIQh4hJ9tIY4eauBqUd0s7rS3Yfg0hbmMQ5tQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-77bb85d8d5-5mvwj; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=nico@cryptonector.com
X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost
X-Drop-Tart: 4c2bc9536f4e609d_1761756471870_2412137606
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1761756471870:490171279
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1761756471870
Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a424.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.121.87.189 (trex/7.1.3); Wed, 29 Oct 2025 16:47:51 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; s=dreamhost; t=1761756471; bh=wZKI39dkgGtKVrjzBBMJfkN+2gUfBl3SKEUCvONOAtU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lJXEkbgKh2iWxBIHR1KcEbN5zopR7GdIEwy/e8q1Xy0P3DkDmv0fsuoOgaIqOFVUk O4BZCYCQ6GYETjCtJC3b8ZO8iX8LlqNu0HzYD3puZl0Zns9EknU1+oU9pymg+Q/yPK saGCVYBsdaLuB5lw2nH58CK8ubTwMV+GG0kpSNnJP2X/VfSnt1g3GnlCD1PIC9pIKJ NbQAb5mXMxOgbL9yyaPBRAmSLcJc9cSSf/j1Da6huSWdhNbqjgBG8FG1boohVovlat 3gyw4ySma6+VaHY+YbcxgI4m9Ct6hYNc6YAe2/nzhM+fs6p455nmwTEHowplmyNVnp wQRUfj1bHpFsA==
Received: from ubby (unknown [75.81.95.64]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a424.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cxY864Y0Fz1wVB; Wed, 29 Oct 2025 09:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2025 11:47:48 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aQJFNF7k13JSWJkV@ubby>
References: <aQGcki4qQ7S0SzT7@ubby> <DM5PR18MB2326F3F750D598899C580E82ABFAA@DM5PR18MB2326.namprd18.prod.outlook.com> <CACsn0cnDgytTGgnJ1uwxJnwC9Saatd4X4fkYJQRD5pLoa43XqA@mail.gmail.com> <DM5PR18MB23265FA03A349F4D7574391AABFAA@DM5PR18MB2326.namprd18.prod.outlook.com> <aQI66vyQGP58XhSk@ubby> <CACsn0cnygowynDV9ks-+6W7BHCf3h78aO0DssoZ+3k_-9qX6AQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <CACsn0cnygowynDV9ks-+6W7BHCf3h78aO0DssoZ+3k_-9qX6AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID-Hash: 5A67LXY53ATK34QEHAZVY44CWAHGCPG6
X-Message-ID-Hash: 5A67LXY53ATK34QEHAZVY44CWAHGCPG6
X-MailFrom: nico@cryptonector.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tls.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [TLS] Re: tls-server-end-point channel binding for ML-DSA
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/nbKIQ7lP_kNqi1OFk-EvHUAgsPk>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tls-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tls-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tls-leave@ietf.org>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 09:47:08AM -0700, Watson Ladd wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025, 9:03 AM Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 03:54:11PM +0000, Kampanakis, Panos wrote:
> > > Good idea. Option (f) could be an erratum that calls out EdDSA and
> > > ML-DSA as examples of "built-in digest signatures" in X.509 that fall
> > > under the non MD-5/SHA-1 hash bullet of RFC 5929.
> >
> > Is that truly an erratum?  I think an update is in order.  (Who shall do
> > that work?)
> 
> I volunteer. I think once we finish this thread it's a pretty
> straightforward though tedious exercise in copypasta to write what we wrote.

Thanks!

v2.38.3 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status