Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise security and data centre management
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Wed, 05 December 2018 09:12 UTC
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From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2018 09:12:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise security and data centre management
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On 05/12/2018 08:08, Bret Jordan wrote: > Now this WG is finally starting to talk about a solution to a real > problem and need. We can either address the use case and need here > in the IETF, or we can let the solutions be done else where. I would > personally prefer we take this work item back and solve it here in > the IETF. #include <previous-discussions> I would hope the WG not revisit this topic and see no new facts to justify distracting the WG again. Forum shopping is not new - rubber-stamping by ETSI or ANSI was explicitly proposed as a putative reason to adopt draft-green and that did not result in consensus to work on this topic despite the significant effort put in by proponents. I'm also happy to say that I see no evidence that the WG would reach a different conclusion as to lack of consensus. FWIW, I view this discussion as being analogous to scratching an itchy scab - despite our knowing it is unproductive to do so, some IETF participants apparently can't resist poking at the wound:-( S. > > Finally, remember, you may not like the use case or need, but that > does not mean the use case is not valid and needed. > > Thanks, Bret PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 F2C0 74F8 > ACAE 7415 0050 "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, > the only thing that can not be unscrambled is an egg." > >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 1:18 AM, Tony Arcieri <bascule@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:36 PM Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com >> <mailto:nico@cryptonector.com>> wrote: >>> I'm not a fan of systems like this, but I believe for security >>> reasons they should be designed in such a way that only the >>> confidentiality of traffic is impacted, and a "visibility" system >>> isn't able to leverage the decrypted traffic to resume decrypted >>> sessions and thereby impersonate clients. >> >> Any key escrow system will have this property. Given the session >> keys (or a way to recover them) you can resume decrypted sessions. >> >> Wouldn't escrowing only the client/server application traffic >> secrets (instead of keys higher in the schedule) avoid this >> problem? These keys would permit the one capability "visibility" >> appliance vendors allege to care about: traffic decryption, without >> permitting others like session resumption. >> >> The most obvious escrow design requiring no changes to the clients >> is to use a static eDH key on the server-side. The next most >> obvious such design is to have the server talk to the escrow >> agent. >> >> It seems like with an out-of-band escrow agent, the traffic secrets >> could be escrowed with no changes to TLS. >> >> -- Tony Arcieri _______________________________________________ TLS >> mailing list TLS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > > > > _______________________________________________ TLS mailing list > TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls >
- [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise secu… Dmitry Belyavsky
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Dmitry Belyavsky
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christian Huitema
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Jonathan Hoyland
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Jonathan Hoyland
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Benjamin Beurdouche
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Bret Jordan
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … R duToit
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Christopher Wood
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Melinda Shore
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Nico Williams
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Tony Arcieri
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Arnaud.Taddei.IETF
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] ETSI releases standards for enterprise … Arnaud.Taddei.IETF