Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-tls13-18
mrex@sap.com (Martin Rex) Wed, 09 November 2016 17:42 UTC
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To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 18:42:19 +0100
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From: mrex@sap.com
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Subject: Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-tls13-18
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Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > > Martin Rex wrote: >> >> The problem here is that this breaks (network) flow control, existing >> (network socket) event management, and direction-independent connection >> closure, and does so completely without value. > > Martin, you keep saying things like "without value", while other people > on this thread (Rich, Ilari, Yoav) have given you examples of the value > it provides. You don't seem to be trying to understand those positions. Nobody so far has provide a single example of *REAL* value. For the hiding of ContentType to provide real value, the prerequisites are: (1) this value will be _unconditionally_ provided in TLSv1.3 (2) this value can be demonstrated to be a real security issue in TLSv1.2, for existing usage scenarios, where hiding of ContentType is not available Anyhing less is no value, just an illusion of value. > > This WG isn't chartered to defend the engineering optimizations made by > any particular middlebox vendor. It's chartered to improve the privacy > and security guarantees offered to users of TLS. You are confusing _middlebox_ with _middleware_at_the_endpoint_, which is a huge difference, because the middleboxes are performing man-in-the-middle attacks, whereas the _middleware_at_the_endpoint_ has regular access to the entire plaintext of the communication. The problem with hiding of TLS record ContentTypes is that it severely interferes with efficient streaming network I/O--which is preferably performed outside/above the TLS implementation and async non-blocking whenever you get into thousands of parallel connections. -Martin
- [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-tls-… Joseph Salowey
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Sean Turner
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Adam Langley
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Kaduk, Ben
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Kaduk, Ben
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… John Mattsson
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Yuhong Bao
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [TLS] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-… Martin Thomson