Re: [Tm-rid] RAA/HDA - drawing the line in 32 bits

Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com> Thu, 21 November 2019 12:21 UTC

Return-Path: <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
X-Original-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044B3120892 for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 04:21:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HkNGbIuySMSr for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 04:21:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93E6612087B for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 04:21:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA4160964; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 07:21:44 -0500 (EST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com
Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2KzBCqmyMDK1; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 07:21:37 -0500 (EST)
Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (dhcp-9f34.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.159.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD8AA6211E; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 07:21:33 -0500 (EST)
To: "Card, Stu" <stu.card@axenterprize.com>
Cc: Tero Kivinen <kivinen@iki.fi>, tm-rid@ietf.org
References: <501e2093-a370-b527-8309-6a42b099123f@labs.htt-consult.com> <24022.14776.836622.11887@fireball.acr.fi> <52d38537-5c17-e7de-c684-b2a4719700ae@labs.htt-consult.com> <CAKM0pYPbMg-Lu4fZ5+BCn7m8an8WJQ75QmU3Prh0eUvMycK-uA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
Message-ID: <f2d5d077-9179-b529-2895-c09cb663b593@labs.htt-consult.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 20:21:28 +0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.1.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAKM0pYPbMg-Lu4fZ5+BCn7m8an8WJQ75QmU3Prh0eUvMycK-uA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------39D687311E6334D84A230301"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tm-rid/EoYqu8nb6XFknXGRKIEbjb9TMfk>
Subject: Re: [Tm-rid] RAA/HDA - drawing the line in 32 bits
X-BeenThere: tm-rid@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Trustworthy Multipurpose RemoteID <tm-rid.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tm-rid/>
List-Post: <mailto:tm-rid@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 12:21:49 -0000

And it is more than that.

The USS may run one HDA for the pilot system and not publish the HI for 
those systems.  Only authorized people need to know how to contact the 
piloting system.  Whereas the HHIT for the UA is public along with the 
HI.  Pilot systems will tend to be stable, though the binding to pilot 
will change but that is USS backend data.  It is the UA HHIT that may 
change.

I don't think the blockchain stuff helps here.

As to how to gen a new keypair it might just gen or use:

draft-barnes-cfrg-mult-for-7748

It is a tossup as to which is computationally and power cheaper.  I plan 
on referencing the above draft in the next ver of HHIT.

On 11/21/19 5:55 PM, Card, Stu wrote:
> I think we need to assume that many commercial UAS operators will use 
> 1 HHIT per flight. Given the large number of UAS & frequency of 
> flights, this will rapidly consume enough of even a large space that 
> collisions will rise. So HHITs will need lifetimes & to be reclaimed 
> for re-use.
>
> I know many will pillory me for saying this: maybe claim a HHIT by 
> appending it in a blinded form to a blockchain? For blinding, I'm 
> thinking back before Satoshi Nakamoto, to David Chaum's & Stefan 
> Brands' work... also more recently Jan Camenisch & Anna Lyskayana...
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:09 PM Robert Moskowitz 
> <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com <mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 11/21/19 3:16 PM, Tero Kivinen wrote:
>>     Robert Moskowitz writes:
>>>     In draft-moskowitz-hip-hierarchical-hit-01.txt, I use 14 bits (16,384)
>>>     for the RAA space and 18 bits (262,144) for HDA within each RAA.  Seems
>>>     reasonable enough for me.  Good as any guess about the future.
>>>
>>>     Tero Kivinen suggested a soft separation with the HDA in little endian
>>>     order.  This way we might have time to figure out where we need more,
>>>     RAAs or HDAs.
>>>
>>>     Sounds interesting, but I see potential problem(s) if one RAA really
>>>     runs up its number of HDAs and thus limits the number of RAAs in total
>>>     as a result.
>>     I think we should be strict hard limit for RAAs for how many HDAs it
>>     can before it needs to come back for asking changing. For example say
>>     12-bits for HDAs and if it looks like there are going to be multiple
>>     RAAs running out of 12-bit space, then we can expand it to 16-bit etc.
>>
>>     If it just one RAA getting very large, we can of course give him
>>     2nd RAA number.
>
>     Another item to toss into the mix is an HDA requesting a second or
>     so number.  After registering so many HHITs, the collision rate
>     becomes 'unacceptable' and the move to a new HDA number for new
>     registrations.
>
>     How many deliveries might UPS make a day via UAs?  A new HHIT per
>     delivery or only per day?  This could run through a lot of HHITs.
>
>     Will some HDAs deprecate expired HHITs and allow reuse or keep the
>     numbers around even after they are released by the owner?
>
>     All policy issues that will impact the hierarchy space.
>
>
>>     The IPv4 addresses just showed that we can never get the split right
>>     on the first time...
>>
>>>     Oh, and the 32bit space will be represented in DNS as nibbles.
>
>     -- 
>     Robert Moskowitz
>     Owner
>     HTT Consulting
>     C: 248-219-2059
>     F: 248-968-2824
>     E: rgm@labs.htt-consult.com <mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>
>
>     There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter
>     who gets the credit
>     -- 
>     Tm-rid mailing list
>     Tm-rid@ietf.org <mailto:Tm-rid@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tm-rid
>

-- 
Standard Robert Moskowitz
Owner
HTT Consulting
C:248-219-2059
F:248-968-2824
E:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com

There's no limit to what can be accomplished if it doesn't matter who 
gets the credit