Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> Fri, 12 July 2019 01:30 UTC
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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "tram-chairs@ietf.org" <tram-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tram-turnbis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tram-turnbis@ietf.org>, "tram@ietf.org" <tram@ietf.org>, "brandon.williams@akamai.com" <brandon.williams@akamai.com>
Thread-Topic: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:30:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Tiru! > -----Original Message----- > From: iesg [mailto:iesg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Konda, Tirumaleswar > Reddy > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 5:07 AM > To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > Cc: tram-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-tram-turnbis@ietf.org; tram@ietf.org; > brandon.williams@akamai.com > Subject: RE: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Hi Roman, > > Thanks for the review. Please see inline > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tram <tram-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Roman Danyliw via > > Datatracker > > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 4:20 AM > > To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > > Cc: tram-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-tram-turnbis@ietf.org; > > tram@ietf.org; brandon.williams@akamai.com > > Subject: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: > > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click > > links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the > > content is safe. > > > > Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-27: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > > this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > (1) Section 12.1.6. (Per the back-and-forth on Chris Wood’s SECDIR > > review – thank you Chris!) Per “Confidentiality is only a secondary > > concern, as TURN control messages do not include information that is > > particularly sensitive”, wouldn’t the USERNAME and REALM potentially > > be privacy sensitive? If they aren’t sensitive in all cases (e.g., > > usernames might be ephemeral), this should be noted and cited. > > Agreed, added the following paragraph: > > If the TURN client and server use the STUN Extension for Third-Party > Authorization [RFC7635] (for example it is used in WebRTC), the > username does not reveal the real user's identity, the USERNAME > attribute carries an ephemeral and unique key identifier. If the > TURN client and server use the STUN long-term credential mechanism > and the username reveals the real user's identity, the client needs > to use (D)TLS transport between the client and the server or use the > USERHASH attribute instead of the USERNAME attribute to anonynmize > the username. > > If the TURN client and server use the STUN long-term credential > mechanism and realm information is privacy sensitive, TURN can be run > over (D)TLS. As a reminder, STUN Extension for Third-Party > Authorization does not use realm. Thank you. This text would address my concern. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > (2) This draft relies on the draft-ietf-tram-stunbis’s STUN Password > > Algo Registry which has MD5 and SHA-256. Section 16.1.1 of that draft > > already discusses the limitation of SHA-256 (which it might be useful to > reference). > > Nevertheless, are there cases where MD5 should be used over SHA-256 if > > there is a choice? Is there a reason not to recommend that > > implementations “SHOULD NOT use MD5”? > > The only reason draft-ietf-tram-stunbis retained MD5 is for backward- > compatibility (client using older version of STUN (RFC5389)). Understood. Could we say something on the order of "if a client supports both MD5 and SHA-256, the latter SHOULD BE used"? > > > > (3) Section 5. Per “The client SHOULD include the SOFTWARE …” and “The > > client and the server MAY include the FINGERPRINT attribute …”, why is > > the sending of SOFTWARE not a “MAY” too? > > This same behavior is defined in RFC5766 and turnbis does not modify the > behavior, and to address the comment from Chris Wood (Secdir review) > added the following line to Security Considerations section: > > SOFTWARE attribute can reveal the specific software version of the TURN > client and server to eavesdropper and it might possibly allow attacks against > vulnerable software that is known to contain security holes. If it is important > to prevent an eavesdropper from learning the software version, TURN can > be run over (D)TLS. Understood. I can live with an argument that turnbis shouldn't modify the behavior in this case given this additional (helpful) language. Thanks. > > > > (4) Section 5. (Per the back-and-forth on Chris Wood’s SECDIR review) > > Recommend citing Section 6.3.1 of [draft-ietf-tram-stunbis] as source > > of 40 second request buffer timeout > > Done. Thanks. > > > > (5) Section 21.4. Per “It is RECOMMENDED that TURN servers not accept > > allocation or channel binding requests from addresses known to be > > tunneled”, I concur with the advice. How would one recognize that the > > address is being tunneled? > > By managing drop-list of tunnel IP addresses, it is the same technique used > by several websites to block VPN access (see > https://www.howtogeek.com/403771/why-do-some-websites-block-vpns/) Right. I didn't know if there was something fancier I was missing. I appreciate these changes and explanations! Roman > Cheers, > -Tiru > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tram mailing list > > tram@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram
- [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-tram… Roman Danyliw via Datatracker
- Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Roman Danyliw
- Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
- Re: [tram] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Roman Danyliw