[tsvwg] Re: UDP options [was IP Parcels and Advanced Jumbos (AJs)]

"touch@strayalpha.com" <touch@strayalpha.com> Wed, 20 November 2024 01:11 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74FA5C151066; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 17:11:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.102
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BpqWDW4eS_UZ; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 17:11:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34F98C1D8770; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 17:11:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=V+Z0n/BD6wBAD/n8V5of7OjgU8WC4JBYLKRtklsLdwI=; b=RLwEuaHTxdNpbbBf5nSFupHkmD SLFNCHNhFvXgUUkDl5aVe50DfeHbhBAdRHzcgpO9CM7j+fUXKgiWJflPI14IbzXZv0Jkg03+XDtuu kX6eU0+AYw7wdbbd/MjifwAyRwFrXF9AbCml/Th7LP2FFflqPXIhYiAS5PsveXgyrcpRrfPpbS0+d f2EGZr2ouP2hfoRm0kqVzyXU1IMCz2/C7PwgLuVDfVzaWmmS3cajUVSf9d5PITeSOvwDVwfByGZ1y LPPsJpbSZEHJtI/7WU1FM21cyOXPDmBLKgUn87pwv2D0r+vNragfSQ+f9LNKxiMgZ6OVQ6JtHRU/p VxOlZyoQ==;
Received: from [172.58.211.230] (port=14710 helo=smtpclient.apple) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96.2) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1tDZFS-0059Xt-20; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 20:11:14 -0500
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C3EF90F-1747-42E0-8B25-E691363D3070"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3818.100.11.1.3\))
From: "touch@strayalpha.com" <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <1793588783.826541.1732060686345@mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2024 17:11:01 -0800
Message-Id: <A29DC31F-2265-4D6E-A11F-3D4BCD5DF9DD@strayalpha.com>
References: <BN0P110MB14208C809529E7D562F8FB7BA375A@BN0P110MB1420.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <CACL_3VFWj=e7CXwpfq0rnLgg+RgDJt9NBczZ46F5s1e3DO3F7w@mail.gmail.com> <CACL_3VF3jj2uFTyhrKb8XPDv0O5HhJOW0Sg2bdnj9SGBEyw-2Q@mail.gmail.com> <684A3F21-4325-4271-8186-B2BAA648F451@strayalpha.com> <1793588783.826541.1732060686345@mail.yahoo.com>
To: "lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk" <lloyd.wood=40yahoo.co.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3818.100.11.1.3)
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Message-ID-Hash: ZZLNOH23I4EPAXUTUMZBQKLHVVKS7LFP
X-Message-ID-Hash: ZZLNOH23I4EPAXUTUMZBQKLHVVKS7LFP
X-MailFrom: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tsvwg.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, int-area <int-area@ietf.org>, 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>, TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [tsvwg] Re: UDP options [was IP Parcels and Advanced Jumbos (AJs)]
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/YCWjTfG616ucsDYcw3z1wsUxM0g>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tsvwg>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:tsvwg-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:tsvwg-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:tsvwg-leave@ietf.org>

Hi, Lloyd,

> On Nov 19, 2024, at 3:58 PM, lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk <lloyd.wood=40yahoo.co.uk@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> ...

> When UDP-Lite (RFC3828) was proposed, it was eventually shunted to its own IP protocol number, rather than risk messing up existing UDP implementations and semantics for even a very minor change. I gather that move to a different port was done very late in the process.

It was proposed in the very first WG draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-lite-00

   Therefore, this draft proposes to allocate a new protocol identifier
   for UDP Lite.

Even the Lars-Åke Lazon’s MS thesis from 1999 noted that it was not backwards compatible with legacy endpoint (in terms used in the UDP options draft).

That’’s quite different from one of the original design goals of UDP options (see section 6 f the current doc).

Then again, that’s also probably why Lite took only 2 years from draft to RFC, and options are approaching 10.

Joe